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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#121
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software isn't precisely zero-sum, but it's zero-sum assuming a static supply of companies to work for. Which ends up being the case in Canada, since 1. there isn't much of a culture of entrepreneurship; 2. there are few VCs, and they're pretty much all hyper-conservative, to the point that they may as well be banks.

Influx of immigrants, with zero shackling of immigrants == good chances of successful entrepreneurship. In a few months/years, students from India and China going to US for grad studies will slow down, and most of them chosing Canada over US. In a few years, if US continues its systematic and unfair ways of keeping citizens of India and China from immigrating to US, and Canada continues its policy of courting immigra…

To be clear, it's not that there aren't startup founders who are Canadian citizens. But, in my experience, they tend to move to the US as well—not for the tech talent pool, but rather for access to "proper" VCs. Canada has been creating startup founders for a while now... it just hasn't translated into Canadian startups.

Meanwhile, these startup founders often come back to Canada after getting their startup off the ground in the US... to create a Canadian "engineering branch office"—i.e., to hire tech talent at the cheaper Canadian going rate. But, of course, this only happens for startups that manage to get to a stage where they need whole offices of additional tech talent—which is not most startups.

Given this dynamic, I wouldn't expect increasing the number of available developers would do much at all. Now, if you could come up with some way to keep entrepreneurs from moving to the US, that might help...

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian tech worker in SF... Nope. I tripled my salary coming down here even in just nominal terms (ie, before you factor in the exchange rate that eats 25% of your salary.) I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary.

Unrelated tangent: It always baffle me how people view exchange rate as something that can "eat away your salary" and when you see people making statements like "it's so expensive in the UK, a pound is like 130% of a dollar". Makes me wonder if people who are only used to currencies that are roughly on the same scale view currencies in a different way than people who are used to 10x / 100x differences in currencies.…

To supplement the person you are replying to post, in Canada, the same goods and services are more expensive AND your money is worth 30% less than the US Dollar. So if you were able to move to the US and get a job that paid THE EXACT SAME SALARY, you would STILL be better off because good and services you consume would be cheaper AND you pay less overall tax.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#123

While I agree with this sentiment overall, what pay differential can compensate for a more general stability? It would be great if someone could get a high-paying job and not worry about being bankrupted by an unforeseen medical disaster, but that's not the case in the US. And by the same token, almost no amount of pay (within the tech spectrum) could convince me to live in the cities in Texas where right-wing extrem…

Not sure why you are getting down voted but I was thinking along the lines of the healthcare point.

It is a Nassim Taleb type of point: you're basically making extra money writing healthcare puts, but when there is a crash, you get wiped out.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#124
post #40

Could someone explain how taxation works in Canada (including VAT, compulsory insurances, council tax...). Quick googling says income tax has doubled in 2017. edit: Here is a source for doubled tax, looks like google parser is wrong https://pasteboard.co/hMazP1hHs.png

> Quick googling says income tax has doubled in 2017. reply This is not true, and was likely posted by a conservative hardliners. Canada uses an after-price sales tax like the USA, but in higher quantities - it will vary between 5% and 13% depending on province. Also, all provinces are currently implementing a carbon pricing system, so some provinces will have an additional sales tax on carbon intensive goods like ga…

Beer prices in Ontario are pretty insane (about twice as expensive) compared to the bordering US states even factoring in the exchange rate. I'm used to $11 12 packs of Molson on the MI side of the border, walking into a Beer Store in ON is always a price shock.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a country not be permitted to prohibit you entry if you don't add value to said country? That's what sovereignty is all about. If you are down on your luck, I will take you into my home. But there is a limit to how many people I can support without them contributing to the household. Scale this up to nation state scale, and you have visa quotas.

> Why should a country not be permitted to prohibit you entry if you don't add value to said country? That's what sovereignty is all about. The problem is that capital flows more or less freely but labor does not.

Fully agree there needs to be tighter capital controls. Capital should be a second class citizen to labor.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#126
post #8

Think Canadian salaries don't compete with US companies? Guess what happens when supply increases? Most other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) throttle supply through things like certification, but for some reason developers can't / don't want to get their act together to do the same. Even worse, they (we) welcome more supply! The mind boggles. And I say this as a Canadian employer who would certain…

Wait, wtf? You're advocating for occupational licensing in tech?

Many have have advocate for such and it is not entirely crazy. I don't agree with it, but it is hardly wtf-worthy.

I think it is actually a kind of wtf that there are no certifications for software devs that make life and death things, life auto-pilot or pacemaker software.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#127
post #61
post #8

Think Canadian salaries don't compete with US companies? Guess what happens when supply increases? Most other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) throttle supply through things like certification, but for some reason developers can't / don't want to get their act together to do the same. Even worse, they (we) welcome more supply! The mind boggles. And I say this as a Canadian employer who would certain…

> Guess what happens when supply increases? So we should reduce the supply by forcing licensing? That would lower employment in the field since it would require accreditation i.e we would get an increase in unemployment which is what reducing the supply means. And Canadian companies can't afford developers as is, and you suggest increasing the cost of said developers which would force Canadian companies to either cha…

> And Canadian companies can't afford developers as is, and you suggest increasing the cost of said developers which would force Canadian companies to either change field or close their doors.

If Canadian companies can't afford to pay developers what the market bears out, they will close because those developers will get paid what they're worth somewhere else. That's capitalism.

You're suggesting Canadian developers should take lower market salaries to help those mediocre companies survive...?

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#128
post #8

Think Canadian salaries don't compete with US companies? Guess what happens when supply increases? Most other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) throttle supply through things like certification, but for some reason developers can't / don't want to get their act together to do the same. Even worse, they (we) welcome more supply! The mind boggles. And I say this as a Canadian employer who would certain…

Because that is a terrible thing to do. What gives us the right to stop other people from becoming software engineers?

Anyone should be able to become an engineer. Don't the fact that they have an effect on our huge salaries? Well thats the market. Tough shit. Get better and compete with them. Don't stop other people, who are better than you, from competing by using the law against them.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian tech worker in SF... Nope. I tripled my salary coming down here even in just nominal terms (ie, before you factor in the exchange rate that eats 25% of your salary.) I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary.

Unrelated tangent: It always baffle me how people view exchange rate as something that can "eat away your salary" and when you see people making statements like "it's so expensive in the UK, a pound is like 130% of a dollar". Makes me wonder if people who are only used to currencies that are roughly on the same scale view currencies in a different way than people who are used to 10x / 100x differences in currencies.…

The confusion might come from the fact that the UK can be quite expensive. So prices look nominally the same in GBP as in USD---it's just that the US is often a lot cheaper.

Thus for the casual observer it look like the difference is in the exchange rate---not in the prices.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#130
post #101

I dont understand the hate on Canadian salaries. Its a safer, more liberal country that looks after its poorest. If you want cut throat lifestyle that pays the most - with the guy who cooked you dinner keeping one eye out for an ICE van, your ex-slaves in prison and some homeless guy going through your dumpster - you'll love the US. If you want to live a fairer society (Canada, France, Germany, Australia etc) don't c…

I don't think people would complain if it were only a little less for the benefits you describe, but the factor of three that is mentioned by other comments is not an exaggeration. It is one thing to take a pay cut of 20% to live in a "safer, more liberal country." It is quite another to take a pay cut of 70%. Right now, I am trying to move back to Canada. My goal is to get about 50% of the salary that I got at my last job in the U.S., and even that is looking very unlikely.
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