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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#61

Post by boona »

kareemm wrote: post #8

Think Canadian salaries don't compete with US companies? Guess what happens when supply increases? Most other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) throttle supply through things like certification, but for some reason developers can't / don't want to get their act together to do the same. Even worse, they (we) welcome more supply! The mind boggles. And I say this as a Canadian employer who would certain…

> Guess what happens when supply increases?

So we should reduce the supply by forcing licensing?

That would lower employment in the field since it would require accreditation i.e we would get an increase in unemployment which is what reducing the supply means. And Canadian companies can't afford developers as is, and you suggest increasing the cost of said developers which would force Canadian companies to either change field or close their doors. How could this possibly help anyone but Americans and American companies?

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#62

Post by schwap »

jankotek wrote: post #15

Could someone explain how taxation works in Canada (including VAT, compulsory insurances, council tax...). Quick googling says income tax has doubled in 2017. edit: Here is a source for doubled tax, looks like google parser is wrong https://pasteboard.co/hMazP1hHs.png

Quick'n'dirty run down:

Income tax: province/territory and federal levels Consumption tax: government level (5%) + provincial level (most provinces/territories) (this is close-ish to VAT) property tax: municipal/provincial, like council tax health care cost varies by province/territory.

Income tax has definitely not doubled. It's unchanged at the federal level.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#63

Post by ryandrake »

Pxtl wrote: post #24
kareemm wrote: post #8

Think Canadian salaries don't compete with US companies? Guess what happens when supply increases? Most other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) throttle supply through things like certification, but for some reason developers can't / don't want to get their act together to do the same. Even worse, they (we) welcome more supply! The mind boggles. And I say this as a Canadian employer who would certain…

Because software isn't a zero sum game. Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. It means you get bigger companies doing bigger things with bigger success which means bigger quantities of cash whirling around up for grabs. Being the only plumber in town means you can charge whatever you want. Being the only developer in town means you'…

> Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley.

I think we might be talking about two different Silicon Valleys. The one here in the real world has a glut of developers fighting for scraps. Companies that have the luxury of being extremely picky and only hiring the best. Lots of interviewing and so-called "open positions" but not a lot of hiring.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#64

Post by derefr »

Pxtl wrote: post #24
kareemm wrote: post #8

Think Canadian salaries don't compete with US companies? Guess what happens when supply increases? Most other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) throttle supply through things like certification, but for some reason developers can't / don't want to get their act together to do the same. Even worse, they (we) welcome more supply! The mind boggles. And I say this as a Canadian employer who would certain…

Because software isn't a zero sum game. Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. It means you get bigger companies doing bigger things with bigger success which means bigger quantities of cash whirling around up for grabs. Being the only plumber in town means you can charge whatever you want. Being the only developer in town means you'…

Software isn't precisely zero-sum, but it's zero-sum assuming a static supply of companies to work for. Which ends up being the case in Canada, since

1. there isn't much of a culture of entrepreneurship;

2. there are few VCs, and they're pretty much all hyper-conservative, to the point that they may as well be banks.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#65

Post by frandroid »

personjerry wrote: post #27
acchow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Canadian tech company makes money hand-over-fist like Google, Facebook and Apple? The motivation to pay more for talent is to make more money... but Canadian tech companies 1) Do not make all that much money (with exception of Shopify) and 2) Don't believe that they will eventually make all that much money after hiring more.

>Don't believe that they will eventually make all that much money That is a pattern I've noticed in Canada in contrast to the US in fact; We settle for "good enough" or "profitable" but not the "moonshots" or strive to be "the best". Whether in tech, business, or even global influence, we are a "middle power" and we seem happy about it (my high school politics teacher explains that this is a result of constantly bein…

> We settle for "good enough"

The main problem is investment. You just don't have the investment capital in Canada that you can get in the U.S. I'm not just talking tech, but throughout the economy. Lots of successful Canadian SMEs get bought out by Americans because there's no one here who has the balls to invest in them. In many cases, their (head) offices are moved to the U.S., further reducing the economic impact they had here and making the U.S. economy stronger. Canada is a perpetual SME incubator feeding the U.S. economy.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#66

Post by [deleted] »

eigenvector wrote: post #5

"For years, Canada's tech industry has watched in frustration as Microsoft and Google hired the country's top computer science grads for high-paying jobs in Seattle and Silicon Valley. Now Canada believes it has found a new way to lure American and international tech workers." Is it... paying more so people don't have to choose between their country and financial security? Let's see. "Canadian tech companies are eage…

[deleted]

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#67

Post by ryandrake »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
binarymax wrote: post #9

"Starting Monday, Canada's government says it will streamline the visa process so that international tech workers can get a work permit in just two weeks — compared to a complicated process in the U.S. that can take months." I'm increasingly troubled by the notion that the only way one can move from one place to another, is by some contrived rule of value-add that person may offer. Aside from this new rule, Canada ot…

Why should a country not be permitted to prohibit you entry if you don't add value to said country? That's what sovereignty is all about. If you are down on your luck, I will take you into my home. But there is a limit to how many people I can support without them contributing to the household. Scale this up to nation state scale, and you have visa quotas.

This line of reasoning is not compatible with Birthright Citizenship. If sovereignty is all about prohibiting entry to people who don't add value, why is it not also about kicking existing people out who don't add value?

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#68

Post by lacampbell »

nacho2sweet wrote: post #55
BrainInAJar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian tech worker in SF... Nope. I tripled my salary coming down here even in just nominal terms (ie, before you factor in the exchange rate that eats 25% of your salary.) I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary.

Yeah who the fuck wants to live in Waterloo Ontario when you can live in California? Lmao. Real Canadian Winter, and crap summer. Many of the devs worth their dime in Vancouver end up remote working when they get to the Sr. level. Get paid in USD, and for 25-30% more in a stronger currency. Works out to almost 60% more?! also if you aren't a city person you can then move to one of the gulf islands.

American companies routinely pay remote foreign workers at American rates? I find it a bit hard to believe.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#69

Post by schwap »

eigenvector wrote: post #5

"For years, Canada's tech industry has watched in frustration as Microsoft and Google hired the country's top computer science grads for high-paying jobs in Seattle and Silicon Valley. Now Canada believes it has found a new way to lure American and international tech workers." Is it... paying more so people don't have to choose between their country and financial security? Let's see. "Canadian tech companies are eage…

> Is it... paying more so people don't have to choose between their country and financial security?

I don't think many software developers in Canada are facing that choice. Is there the opportunity to be 'more' secure in the States? Sure. But being a developer in Canada is hardly a bleak proposition.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#70

Post by mahyarm »

jankotek wrote: post #15

Could someone explain how taxation works in Canada (including VAT, compulsory insurances, council tax...). Quick googling says income tax has doubled in 2017. edit: Here is a source for doubled tax, looks like google parser is wrong https://pasteboard.co/hMazP1hHs.png

Basically think of most of canada being california levels of taxation, but cost of consumer goods are higher. Quebec has about %10 more income tax vs california & most of canada.
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