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Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

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Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#141
I probably won't receive any medals for this, but it is my most humble opinion that most of these AI gimmicks (Siri, Alexa, etc...) are useless.

I will concede I get moderate gag value out of Google automatically creating animated gifs from a string of photographs.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#142
post #51

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

Providing AI while respecting privacy is a difficult problem but it must be done. Apple has even published a white paper describing how they'll do it[1].

We should not have to sacrifice privacy for usability. There's a reasonable tradeoff and I believe Apple is doing the right approach.

1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recode.net/platform/amp/201...

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, Siri is horribly behind. I've gone to the point of installing Google on my iPhone and using it even though it's a struggle to activate it compared to Siri. My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking. Also, her voice recognition is awful in noisy settings. I have an iPhone 7

> My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking. What do you mean? You can just say "Hey Siri, blah blah blah" and Siri will pick up the "blah blah blah" just fine. If you're adding an artificial delay after "Hey Siri", waiting for her to respond before continuing, then you're just making it harder. Just speak conversationally.

>If you're adding an artificial delay after "Hey Siri", waiting for her to respond before continuing, then you're just making it harder. Just speak conversationally.

I actually find this frustrating and I'm surprised Apple went this way given their usual commitment to humanistic interaction design. When I'm addressing someone in real life, I call out their names and wait for acknowledgement that they're listening before rattling off questions at them.

The fact that Siri doesn't acknowledge it's listening or even give you a visual indicator that it's attention has been caught (like a person does by making eye contact) makes interaction with it feel strange and unnatural.

It's especially weird when you're in a room with multiple "Hey Siri" capable devices. If I call out "Hey Siri" I'd like to know whether I should be speaking at my iPhone, my iPad, my girlfriends iPhone, or a hypothetical HomePod. Which ones should I direct my voice at and expect a response from? All? None? Some? Can I tell my girlfriend's iPhone to go away because I'm talking to my phone right now? I'd like to. . .

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#144
post #51

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

> How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user?

Store the data locally?

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, Siri is horribly behind. I've gone to the point of installing Google on my iPhone and using it even though it's a struggle to activate it compared to Siri. My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking. Also, her voice recognition is awful in noisy settings. I have an iPhone 7

Tangent: wouldn't it be nice if you could say "Siri, ask Google to..." I wonder if implementing the feature of calling 3rd party assistants from the flagship assistant would pay off strategically. On one hand, you appeal to people who like other assistants better, or like different assistants for different things. On the other hand, you give up on forcing people to get used to your assistant. Also, could an isolation…

>I wonder if implementing the feature of calling 3rd party assistants from the flagship assistant would pay off strategically.

It'll never happen, but I can definitely see some utility in building this in. For example: "Hey Siri, have Alexa order some paper towels from Amazon." I can see Amazon allowing this since they're going for a more generic approach. But I don't think Google, Apple, MS, or Samsung will.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ceaselessly amused by the folks fearing Amazon Echos or Google Homes as though they're constantly listening microphones sent to the NSA. As though we don't already carry devices on our person everywhere we go that have mics (smartphones). Also, while we trade our privacy to Google (or Amazon, or whomever) in exchange for customization and convenience (a social contract I'm generally happy to sign off on), those c…

You really don't get it do you. Most of us aren't worried about Amazon and Google per se but rather what happens to our data when (a) they are compromised and (b) government surveillance increases in scope. There have been countless incidents (and these will only increase in frequency) where people's sensitive information have been stolen and used for blackmail and identity fraud. There is also the increasing use of…

The problem isn't really privacy, it's privacy asymmetry.

Would Facebook agree to make all of their employee web searches public? Would Google? How about all phone traffic? Emails?

Thought experiment: imagine a world where everyone can see what everyone else is doing all of the time.

Assume absolutely no exceptions or restrictions. You can eavesdrop on anyone in the world. Anyone can eavesdrop on you.

How many "I am fine with no privacy" advocates would be happy with this?

It's an extreme thought experiment to highlight how asymmetric the current model is. In the current model privacy is becoming a privilege that is available more and more selectively.

To eliminate the privilege, you either need user controls and permissions for specific profitable use cases, or you need full openness - which I think most people would find terrifying, for all kinds of reasons.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#147

This article ticks me off. Apple announced some really good features on Monday (CoreML and a bunch of ML driven features). Having this kind of article after WWDC is unfair. As a consumer, I applaud Apple's approach. The so-called AI as pursued by Google & other tech companies isn't AI at all. True AI won't need as much data. You do need data for Machine Learning (i.e. pattern matching). That's what other tech firms a…

> The so-called AI as pursued by Google & other tech companies isn't AI at all. True AI won't need as much data.

Deepmind / AlphaGo, Watson, and other like them are about the best thing we have nowadays when it comes to AI. Let's not even talk about True AI, which if you take any of the definitions can only become reality with so much data we're only brushing on it actually. Saying True AI won't need as much data is failing to understand how much "data" it takes to make a human brain function, and while that is a whole other can of worm, one thing is certain it's a shit load accumulated over time.

> If and when true AI happens, there's a good chance Apple will be leading that.

Apple is not even in the same arena when it comes to AI. And they shouldn't be, with the cash piles they have it's better for them to wait for somebody else to make the breakthrough and pull a Siri, buy a company that does what you want and integrate it how is needed for you product / consumers.

Also don't confuse AI/True AI with clever algorithm.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#148
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can only look at you to learn - Google can look at you, and a million other people like you

I think many Apple users would be happy if only Siri could answer factual questions objectively and follow a conversation, being happy with a minimum of privacy collection like current location, name of spouse for messaging, etc. While some may prefer a knowledge about you or you via people like you, as in, "Please recommend me a great movie", Siri is currently not in a stage where she may tell you stuff like "How do…

>While some may prefer a knowledge about you or you via people like you, as in, "Please recommend me a great movie". . .

Not to mention that Apple positioned itself as a brand for people who "Think Different." I don't think people who got taken in by that messaging would be attracted to the prospect of services that can more efficiently pigeonhole them.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Siri faithfully from 2011 til about the start of this year where I bought a google home. Siri is flat out dumb and frustrating to use comparatively in terms of only understanding 85 percent of my queries vs. Google Home understanding 97 percent. It seems to me Apple has not taken all their hordes of cash and used it to up the AI game. Looks like they are solely focused on the present while competitors are…

I feel this fundamentally misunderstands how each of their AI's work. You're describing an interface problem. Google's AI is extremely good at recognizing speech in comparison to Siri but that's a wholly different thing to deep understanding. Siri is a more advanced AI in many ways due to it's understanding of intents. Google's is much more command based (under the hood). However Apple's speech recognition is letting…

So what would be an advantage of Apple's system (assuming they improve speech recognition) and how would that contrast with Google's approach?

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Siri faithfully from 2011 til about the start of this year where I bought a google home. Siri is flat out dumb and frustrating to use comparatively in terms of only understanding 85 percent of my queries vs. Google Home understanding 97 percent. It seems to me Apple has not taken all their hordes of cash and used it to up the AI game. Looks like they are solely focused on the present while competitors are…

I feel this fundamentally misunderstands how each of their AI's work. You're describing an interface problem. Google's AI is extremely good at recognizing speech in comparison to Siri but that's a wholly different thing to deep understanding. Siri is a more advanced AI in many ways due to it's understanding of intents. Google's is much more command based (under the hood). However Apple's speech recognition is letting…

This morning I told my Google Home "Can you turn your volume all the way up?" and it did it. It maxed the volume, not just turned it up a little bit. To me, this indicates that the Google Assistant is actually pretty good at understanding intent and not just repeating exact commands. Or maybe _I'm_ just misunderstanding your definition of 'commands' and 'intents'.
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