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Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#71

Post by jswny »

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I seriously doubt that there is a significant number of customers that Apple attracts by being pro-privacy. On HN and similar environments, sure, plenty of people here value privacy, as do I. However, don't think for a second that the community on HN is in any way representative of Apple's customer base at all. Apple customers buy Apple products because they work well, look nice, are popular here in the US, etc., but it's NOT because Apple has a strong privacy stance. The majority of Apple customers couldn't care less about privacy (and probably don't know much about it either) and given the chance, would choose Siri working well and not returning search results from Bing over more privacy any day.

So, I agree with your sentiment, but I do not agree with your assessment that Apple's stance on privacy is anything even remotely close to a significant factor in attracting customers.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#72

Post by baddox »

old-gregg wrote: post #66
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

If you have knowledge and control over who gets your information and how they use, well that's effectively the definition of good privacy.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#73

Post by JimDabell »

paul9290 wrote: post #17
wklauss wrote: post #8

> Six years later, the technology giant is struggling to find its voice in AI. I know that this is the most common approach to the situation but the article -as many other articles that have argued this before- provides no proof other than analysts speaking in broad strokes. I use Siri, Alexa and Assistant several times a week if not everyday and I'd hesitate a lot before saying that Siri is behind. Alexa is more res…

I have used Siri faithfully from 2011 til about the start of this year where I bought a google home. Siri is flat out dumb and frustrating to use comparatively in terms of only understanding 85 percent of my queries vs. Google Home understanding 97 percent. It seems to me Apple has not taken all their hordes of cash and used it to up the AI game. Looks like they are solely focused on the present while competitors are…

> Like last weeks WWDC they debuted the AR kit but did not bother to create an amazing/innovate AR app to showcase and get the masses excited for AR and their possible upcoming AR gear.

It's a developer conference not a product launch, so of course it focused on the code rather than "getting the masses excited". The point is that developers can now spend the next few months creating those AR applications to impress people before iOS 11 with ARKit is launched to the public.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#74

Post by LA_Banker »

pwython wrote: post #51
macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I'm ceaselessly amused by the folks fearing Amazon Echos or Google Homes as though they're constantly listening microphones sent to the NSA. As though we don't already carry devices on our person everywhere we go that have mics (smartphones).

Also, while we trade our privacy to Google (or Amazon, or whomever) in exchange for customization and convenience (a social contract I'm generally happy to sign off on), those companies have even more incentive to keep our data safe.

Google is one of the most valuable companies in the world precisely because it, and only it, has the AdSense knowledge (and whatever other knowledge Google collects about me) to target me.

Insurance companies go to Google and say "show our ads to people Googling insurance companies" – that's how Google makes money. It's not as though Google says "here you go State Farm, here's everyone who's been looking up car insurance." It's business model is based on proprietary customer knowledge. It can't give away this data; it's incentivized to limit it to its own ad-targeting tech.

Are there still problems with this model? Sure. If the government decides to subpoena Google on me, they'll turn over my Gmail. But is it a hell of a lot easier getting access to Google services (e.g. Google Maps knowing where I generally go and what the traffic is like) versus using, say, Duck Duck Go on a VPN (let alone Tor or Tails)? For me, and I'd assume most people, yes.

EDIT: I would also point out that we've long been facing the privacy vs. convenience issue. It used to be that merely signing up for a landline meant getting your phone # listed in the White Pages. Paying utility bills makes your name and home address a matter of public record (unless you choose to shield them via owning and paying through a corporate shell). Ditto real estate transactions involving your name/address. All public records, unless you choose to hire attorneys to setup shell corps for the sake of privacy. Not so expensive to do this now in the age of LegalZoom, etc., but this used to cost quite the pretty penny.

This debate is nothing new; it's merely evolving.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#75

Post by specialist »

pwython wrote: post #51
macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I'm unclear why I must forfeit my right to privacy because others (you) think it's a non-issue.

Because you haven't defined privacy: The ability to control what is publicly known about oneself. I'd also add the ability to assess what is known about oneself.

You also ignore identity vis a vis privacy. A completely transparent world (a la Brin) has made identity theft a booming industry.

Lastly, everyone ignores property rights. I am my data, my data is me (see identity above). At the very least, if someone is making a buck at my expense, I want my cut.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#76

Post by baddox »

Swizec wrote: post #65
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

> "Alexa, play me that song I like. And while you're at it, order me a case of my favorite beer. Thanks." The problem is that nerds are allergic to advertising because they are allergic to "being sold to" because they (well, we) like to think we're above such petty foolishness. As such we are not the customer. Therefore nobody cares what we think. And privacy will go away. The problem with this is, what happens if pr…

Who says that aversion to ads has something to do with believing I'm above being sold to? That sounds like nonsense. The reason I don't want to see ads is that they tend to be obnoxious and distracting, some actively disrupt the content I'm intent on viewing (interstitials, TV commercials, preroll video ads), and many end up serving malware.

It would be ludicrous to claim that I'm above being sold to. I'm not even sure what that would mean.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#77

Post by et-al »

virmundi wrote: post #56
coldtea wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. Only when you use them. You can either not install them at all (problem solved). or only allow them to "know your location" when you explicitly launch them and only for the duration of you actively using them on screen (problem lessened).

I don't know if they've fixed this, or if was just me not working the phone right, but Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed.

> Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed

Closed or in the background?

I was under the impression (in iOS 10 and earlier), that "Always" meant anytime the app was open, and "While in use" is only when the app is in the foreground. So if an app has "Always" on for its Location Services, it will stop tracking when I swipe up and quit it.

If I've been incorrect this whole time, please pass the tinfoil.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#78

Post by reckoner2 »

jefferson123 wrote: post #64

Honest question: in the context of the realistic range of consumer AI applications in 2017, what are some meaningful shortcomings Apple products have? And do those shortcomings have any interest to the majority of consumers (and not say, to developers or analysts)?

As an owner of an iPhone 7 and a Pixel I'd say there are not many. Google Assistant is way ahead of Siri at pretty much every imaginable task, and Google Photos can do a lot more than iOS Photos.

That said, none of those features interest me much. And I'm not sure how many average consumers they do interest. It's more of a 'oh, that's cool I guess'. I prefer my iPhone 7 still.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#79

Post by baddox »

jswny wrote: post #71
macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I seriously doubt that there is a significant number of customers that Apple attracts by being pro-privacy. On HN and similar environments, sure, plenty of people here value privacy, as do I. However, don't think for a second that the community on HN is in any way representative of Apple's customer base at all. Apple customers buy Apple products because they work well, look nice, are popular here in the US, etc., but…

I'm not so sure. It becomes a lot harder to explain Apple's very public focus on privacy features if you don't accept that it is a significant factor in smartphone buyers' decisionmaking.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#80

Post by tanilama »

LA_Banker wrote: post #74
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I'm ceaselessly amused by the folks fearing Amazon Echos or Google Homes as though they're constantly listening microphones sent to the NSA. As though we don't already carry devices on our person everywhere we go that have mics (smartphones). Also, while we trade our privacy to Google (or Amazon, or whomever) in exchange for customization and convenience (a social contract I'm generally happy to sign off on), those c…

Prepare to be downvoted to death, but I think some people just want attention and feel important by crying doom.
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