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Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#121

Post by threeseed »

LA_Banker wrote: post #74
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I'm ceaselessly amused by the folks fearing Amazon Echos or Google Homes as though they're constantly listening microphones sent to the NSA. As though we don't already carry devices on our person everywhere we go that have mics (smartphones). Also, while we trade our privacy to Google (or Amazon, or whomever) in exchange for customization and convenience (a social contract I'm generally happy to sign off on), those c…

You really don't get it do you. Most of us aren't worried about Amazon and Google per se but rather what happens to our data when (a) they are compromised and (b) government surveillance increases in scope.

There have been countless incidents (and these will only increase in frequency) where people's sensitive information have been stolen and used for blackmail and identity fraud. There is also the increasing use of private data by governments for example in deciding on visa entry or immigration cases. The use cases for criminals and governments are only going to increase in scope and sophistication and will be applied not just to future data collected but current data.

These are all legitimate situations which are completely unprecedented and only possible because of the increased data collection policies of site like Google or Facebook.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#122

Post by rspeer »

rosstex wrote: post #26

Me: Hey Siri, what cheese goes well with fruit? Siri: Here's what I found on the web for "What cheese goes well with fruit..." Me: Hey Google, what cheese goes well with fruit? Google: "Edam"

We've already seen the problem with Google confidently giving answers that it got from searching the Web.

"Hey Google, is this batshit conspiracy theory I heard about true?"

Google: "Yeah, sounds right"

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#123

Post by raisedbyninjas »

old-gregg wrote: post #66
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

As an aside, you should try checking airfares in incognito mode to ensure this is not happening. Even refreshing the page for the same fare can affect the pricing model.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#124

Post by naravara »

old-gregg wrote: post #66
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

>But generally speaking, we take advantage of information asymmetry all the time:

Sure we do. But this is generally regarded as a bad thing and indicative of a failure in our commercial system to engender fair outcomes. Informational asymmetries aren't things we should be actively involved in exacerbating.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#125

Post by scott_s »

eridius wrote: post #107
rosstex wrote: post #26

Me: Hey Siri, what cheese goes well with fruit? Siri: Here's what I found on the web for "What cheese goes well with fruit..." Me: Hey Google, what cheese goes well with fruit? Google: "Edam"

I assume you're trying to say that Google's answer is better, right? Google's certainly being more authoritative, but the answer to your question is actually fairly subjective, there's more answers than just "Edam", so IMO surfacing search results is better than just having Google pick one answer. Google's also been known to produce completely incorrect "authoritative" answers.

I have an iPhone, sometimes use Siri, and I prefer Google's answer. Simply, if I asked a verbal question, I prefer a verbal response. If I ever ask Siri a question, and I get the "Here's what I found on the web" answer, I consider it a failed operation, and I take a different tack.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#126

Post by mark_l_watson »

I haven't made up my mind on this yet: I really like Apple's privacy policies but I also like Google Assistant on my iPhone.

As usual, for a business trip I took this week, I went all-in with Google (location, my email forwarded to my gmail account, used Google Travell app, etc.). Very convenient for keeping my schedule, travel arrangements, etc. in order.

That said, when I returned home last night, as usual after a trip, I stopped forwarding my email to gmail, uninstalled most Google apps from my iPhone, and turned off location.

When I am at home (most of the time) I like using duck-duck-go, and just Apple's software.

EDIT: I have been working in the field of AI and machine learning for about 30 years. I think that Apple will find a sweet spot between good privacy and making Siri into a useful digital assistant.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#127

Post by threeseed »

theCricketer wrote: post #24
__jal wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't claim to be a fanboy, but I am a longtime user[1], and this is the primary reason I stick to them for my phone. I frankly can't imagine using Android the way I use my Iphone - the privacy invasions considered acceptable are well in to the "no go" range for me, before even getting to the malware that pass for "free apps". If I were somehow forced to use Android, I'm pretty sure I'd treat it as an adversarial dev…

Could you elaborate on Android's weaknesses when it comes to privacy and contrast this with Apple's approach? Asking genuinely to update my understanding.

Couple of examples:

1) iOS has had lazy permissions since the very early days e.g. when an app wants to use this microphone then ask the user right then instead of when the app is installed. This feature is still not implemented on all Android devices nor is it as seamless nor is it mandatory.

2) Apple is providing more and more frameworks e.g. CoreML which run only on the device. This means that developers don't have to run their own server side apps to process data.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#128

Post by rspeer »

wvenable wrote: post #117
eridius wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're trying to say that Google's answer is better, right? Google's certainly being more authoritative, but the answer to your question is actually fairly subjective, there's more answers than just "Edam", so IMO surfacing search results is better than just having Google pick one answer. Google's also been known to produce completely incorrect "authoritative" answers.

If you are speaking to your device for this kind of question, the authoritative answer is what you want. You expect me, after taking to my device, to go over and pick it up and search through web results? If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't have asked the question by voice in the first place!

An "authoritative answer" that may not be true, has no context, and may have been put there by SEOs or propagandists, is worse than no answer at all.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#129

Post by patsplat »

Currently, the only documentation I've seen for extending Siri depend on an app running on a particular device. More than anything else, this device-centric focus is holding Siri back when compared to Alexa and Google Home.

Am I missing something? Has there been any announcement that third party developers could add skills or actions across all Siri instances via the cloud?

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#130

Post by naravara »

solaceb wrote: post #112
baddox wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure. It becomes a lot harder to explain Apple's very public focus on privacy features if you don't accept that it is a significant factor in smartphone buyers' decisionmaking.

In the past, Apple has marketed certain products towards enthusiasts and power-users, which gave those products a certain "prestige" that elevated Apple's image more generally. (I'm thinking about Pro products here, as they were marketed towards arts professionals). Perhaps Apple seeks to take a similar marketing angle here -- by appeal to computer enthusiasts' desire to privacy, maybe they gain some prestige more ge…

Makes sense to me. Apple's sweet spot for marketing is people who don't care very much about tinkering with their stuff, but are fussy enough about how it looks and works to pay a premium for good design that works out of the box.

Prioritizing privacy and security are one of those things that fit as being fussy about things working well, but not wanting to put the time into configuring them to be so. If that crowd likes your stuff and recommends them, then the less technically savvy folks will pick up on the preferences of that crowd and it build's Apple's brand as making premium products.

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