Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 267 posts

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#101

Post by PatentTroll »

Barrin92 wrote: post #59
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I see it this way too. For way too many people privacy seems to have turned into a kind of religious end in and of itself. I think evaluating privacy in real, material terms as in ("what actually happens to me if I gave up my privacy here, and what do I get?") makes more sense than treating it as quasi sacred.

What if you found out today that your neighbors have been watching you undress for the past year? In material terms, nothing has changed and there is no material harm to you, but knowledge of that level of intrusive exposure without consent is something most people object to.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#102

Post by willyt »

naravara wrote: post #22
blazespin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, Siri is horribly behind. I've gone to the point of installing Google on my iPhone and using it even though it's a struggle to activate it compared to Siri. My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking. Also, her voice recognition is awful in noisy settings. I have an iPhone 7

>Also, her voice recognition is awful in noisy settings. I figured that was more of a hardware problem?

Talk to the top of the phone. There is a separate mic up there for Siri. Took me a while to work this out.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#103

Post by eridius »

blazespin wrote: post #12
wklauss wrote: post #8

> Six years later, the technology giant is struggling to find its voice in AI. I know that this is the most common approach to the situation but the article -as many other articles that have argued this before- provides no proof other than analysts speaking in broad strokes. I use Siri, Alexa and Assistant several times a week if not everyday and I'd hesitate a lot before saying that Siri is behind. Alexa is more res…

For me, Siri is horribly behind. I've gone to the point of installing Google on my iPhone and using it even though it's a struggle to activate it compared to Siri. My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking. Also, her voice recognition is awful in noisy settings. I have an iPhone 7

> My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking.

What do you mean? You can just say "Hey Siri, blah blah blah" and Siri will pick up the "blah blah blah" just fine.

If you're adding an artificial delay after "Hey Siri", waiting for her to respond before continuing, then you're just making it harder. Just speak conversationally.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#104

Post by giobox »

Barrin92 wrote: post #59
pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I see it this way too. For way too many people privacy seems to have turned into a kind of religious end in and of itself. I think evaluating privacy in real, material terms as in ("what actually happens to me if I gave up my privacy here, and what do I get?") makes more sense than treating it as quasi sacred.

In countries that are signatories to the ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights) it is _sacred_, given it enshrines a right to privacy in Article 8 for some 800 million people. The Court is pretty judicially active in enforcing the rule as well, even in member states that have governments with crappy human rights records like Russia.

America and a few others are arguably outliers in the western world for failing to recognize privacy, and the right to private family life, as a fundamental right in some form of constitutional legislation.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#105

Post by krrishd »

macinjosh wrote: post #85
krrishd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's something people want I feel the same as you do, but are we sure that the mainstream public actually WANTS privacy, especially when compared to the utility companies are providing by taking it away?

I don't think the tech community gives the general public enough credit when it comes to privacy. If you asked someone whether they wanted a phone that has more privacy risks but also more features or a phone that has less features but more privacy I don't think the former would win hands down. Maybe more would pick the former but a big chunk would pick the latter and that is OK for Apple. They've never needed the ma…

If you blatantly told the consumer, yes. However, most of the privacy-risking utility barely reminds us of what we're giving up, so really it feels like we're losing nothing and gaining utility.

The lack of privacy has to feel tangible in consequence for consumers to care, IMO. Right now it doesn't.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#107

Post by eridius »

rosstex wrote: post #26

Me: Hey Siri, what cheese goes well with fruit? Siri: Here's what I found on the web for "What cheese goes well with fruit..." Me: Hey Google, what cheese goes well with fruit? Google: "Edam"

I assume you're trying to say that Google's answer is better, right? Google's certainly being more authoritative, but the answer to your question is actually fairly subjective, there's more answers than just "Edam", so IMO surfacing search results is better than just having Google pick one answer.

Google's also been known to produce completely incorrect "authoritative" answers.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#108

Post by Retra »

pwython wrote: post #51
macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

"Who you are" is not simply a function of what you want.

And really, Alexa is not really that much more powerful by knowing what your favorite beer is; you already know that information. Until you consider Alexa to be an actual friend, any personal details about you that it keeps are marginally useless if it cannot function autonomously - by ordering your favorite beer without even asking. This is not an 'intelligent' behavior, it's just maintaining a list of preferences. To be honest, it sounds like you are conflating voice commands with AI proper. You can certainly have one without the other, and the former seems to be the thing you're valuing here.

I'm all for the concept of powerful AIs that know everything about me - so long as they know me as an actual person to care about rather than merely as a consumer to squeeze money out of. Which means understanding my boundaries and knowing what I consider offensive and acceptable behaviors.

What we have today are AIs that only learn about you what they find useful to their owners, not what I find useful for them to know.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#109

Post by gervase »

santaclaus wrote: post #93
orthoganol wrote: post #27

Well yes, - they don't publish, they don't have a reputation (no teams like FAIR, DeepMind, MetaMind, MSFT AI, etc.), they don't attract the top AI talent, and anecdotally, they don't even even know how to hire for AI (had a brilliant colleague working in AI turned away because he didn't know some facets about the Python language when they hit him with Leetcode whiteboard questions; IMO they aren't in a position with…

> had a brilliant colleague working in AI turned away because he didn't know some facets about the Python language when they hit him with Leetcode whiteboard questions I mean, to be fair, isn't that every company? Google pulls the same sort of nonsense.

My understanding is that this is not the case when you get up to the research level, where they use altogether different signaling (citation count, impact factor, etc) to disqualify applicants.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#110

Post by eridius »

orthoganol wrote: post #27

Well yes, - they don't publish, they don't have a reputation (no teams like FAIR, DeepMind, MetaMind, MSFT AI, etc.), they don't attract the top AI talent, and anecdotally, they don't even even know how to hire for AI (had a brilliant colleague working in AI turned away because he didn't know some facets about the Python language when they hit him with Leetcode whiteboard questions; IMO they aren't in a position with…

> they don't publish

Your info is outdated. At a conference last December, Apple's director of AI research announced that their AI researchers will be free to publish their findings.

https://9to5mac.com/2016/12/06/apple-ai-researchers-can-publ...

Post reply on HN