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iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

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Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound very sure of this, what's your source? As far as I've read, the iCloud backups have always been encrypted at rest, and Apple is apparently working on improving it to the point where they do not hold any decryption keys to the backups [0]. That's why, when you set up a new device, up until now it would not have your message history - because the message history can only be decrypted on devices that are alrea…

My source, while I wholly acknowledge this is anecdotal and not evidence, is someone in law enforcement tasked with retrieving message logs for investigations. I was pretty skeptical but I've yet found any proof or documentation from Apple's support docs disproving this. I also recall from the San Bernadino case that the FBI/Apple had the ability to get historic message history from the iCloud backup but the FBI push…

> someone in law enforcement tasked with retrieving message logs for investigations.

Right, but do they retrieve them from iCloud? Without Apple's assistance, and without knowing the user's password?

> I was pretty skeptical but I've yet found any proof or documentation from Apple's support docs disproving this.

Well, here's the brief overview: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

and here's the iOS security whitepaper: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

Which includes a section about iCloud security, including the following section:

  iCloud secures the content by encrypting it when sent 
  over the Internet, storing it in an encrypted format, 
  and using secure tokens for authentication.
I am no security expert, but I am pretty sure FBI wouldn't have a huge fight with Apple if they had any way to get to the data directly (and once they figured out they could use a vuln in the old iOS to break into the device, they did indeed drop the fight).

> FBI/Apple had the ability to get historic message history from the iCloud backup

Right, because they reset the shooter's Apple ID password. Not because the backup was in plaintext.

> As for your scenario -- doesn't that explicitly confirm that the messages are not encrypted safely at rest? You can restore to an entirely new device, using the same backup, and retrieve the messages.

How does that follow? You still need to supply your password to decrypt the backup before you can restore it. From the same security whitepaper:

  When files are created in Data Protection classes that aren’t accessible 
  when the device is locked, their per-file keys are encrypted using the 
  class keys from the iCloud Backup keybag. Files are backed up to iCloud 
  in their original, encrypted state. Files in Data Protection class 
  No Protection are encrypted during transport.

  The iCloud Backup keybag contains asymmetric (Curve25519) keys for each 
  Data Protection class, which are used to encrypt the per-file keys. For 
  more information about the contents of the backup keybag and the iCloud 
  Backup keybag, see “Keychain Data Protection” in the Encryption and Data 
  Protection section.

  The backup set is stored in the user’s iCloud account and consists of a 
  copy of the user’s files, and the iCloud Backup keybag. The iCloud Backup 
  keybag is protected by a random key, which is also stored with the backup 
  set. (The user’s iCloud password isn’t utilized for encryption so that 
  changing the iCloud password won’t invalidate existing backups.)

  While the user’s Keychain database is backed up to iCloud, it remains 
  protected by a UID-tangled key. This allows the Keychain to be restored 
  only to the same device from which it originated, and it means no one 
  else, including Apple, can read the user’s Keychain items.

  On restore, the backed-up files, iCloud Backup keybag, and the key for 
  the keybag are retrieved from the user’s iCloud account. The iCloud Backup 
  keybag is decrypted using its key, then the per-file keys in the keybag 
  are used to decrypt the files in the backup set, which are written as new 
  files to the file system, thus re-encrypting them as per their 
  Data Protection class.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#162
post #77

I'm leaning towards picking up an iPhone next, just to show some support for the solid pro-privacy stance Apple has taken in recent times. Uber isn't going to be happy with this at all, and that's a great thing.

I've been an Android user since my first smartphone, but Apple's privacy and human-hand-sized phones really had me considering an iPhone for my next purchase. I ended up with a Pixel anyway, since I can't use iTunes and I like having a filesystem and using Firefox, but it was a near thing.

> human-hand-sized phones

My Chinese girlfriend disputes this. Even the iPhone SE is a bit big for her, and it's just there to consume left-over parts rather than to be a living branch of their design space. No touch-screen phone maker is really serving the Asian market at this point, as far as "idiomatic" one-handed usage goes; they're seemingly expecting everyone with small hands to just treat their phones like phablets, juggling them around in both hands every time they want to tap anything.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#163
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS updates have always been free. There's no such thing as iOS 1.1.3, only iPhoneOS 1.1.3.

No they are right. Due to some sort of accounting thing once upon a time on some of the first iPod touches there would be a small fee to upgrade the OS.

Yes, and that was iPhoneOS, not iOS.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#164
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it into context - the iPhone 5 was in competition with the Galaxy S III and Galaxy Nexus at launch.

And my Galaxy Nexus stopped receiving updates 2-3 years ago despite it being a Google device (mine was also straight from the Google store, so it wasn't the carrier's fault).

if i recall the galaxy nexus was dropped just after 4.3, if i recall correctly this was due to Texas Instruments dropping out of the modem game no?

that was the last android phone I owned.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#165
post #142
post #141

While this is an awesome feature, they're also going to start disabling 32bit apps that I paid for, and use regularly. Damn!

It is annoying. My kids play some games on their phones I downloaded back in 2009. Lemonade art and is one. The game doesn't even appear on the App Store anymore and only works with older versions of iOS, but if your phone is compatible you can still download it from the 'Purchased Apps' section. All that will go away, but on the other hand I really don't expect them to support 32bit apps forever. You always have the…

>You always have the option of simply not upgrading iOS. It's a trade off.

Unfortunately, Apple gives you no way to opt-out of updates. I've figured out a way to block them at the firewall level, which seems to work, for now.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessary to uninstall the app after each use to prevent tracking - in Settings...Privacy...Location Services, you can disable location on a per-app basis. (this is admittedly a pain, and Apple enforcing in-use-only option availability is a welcome change)

Usually these snoopy apps refuse to run unless you enable it first. So you still have to remember to turn it back off when you're done.

That's what the "Only While Using" option is all about. In iOS 10 (and earlier), apps could choose to request location tracking "Only While Using" or to request it "Always". Uber switched from the former to the latter. And the article you're commenting on is all about how iOS 11 will add "Only While Using" back as an option for all apps, so you can set it that way even though Uber doesn't want you to.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#167
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's API don't discriminate with regards to precision. An app that shows nearby stores with a 1km radius precision requires the same level of permissions as an app that's trying to do 1m precision.

That's a good point. Maybe app developers should be able to request the level of access they want, like precise location, neighborhood (postal code), city, state or country. If an app never needs more precise information than the country (say Spotify trying to decide whether they operate in your country), they don't need to request it. That also guards against bugs or security breaches in apps that try to do the righ…

[deleted]

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#168
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze too, I noticed today actually.

Waze uses that info to let you know when you have to leave for your appointment, including regular appointments you have but did not tell it about (if you drive to "5 Mcdonald Road" every day, around 4pm, then after a while, it will start suggesting it). I dislike this feature intensely, so I actually have my location services turned off, and I only turn it on before using Waze or Maps. (Oh, and it seems that the App…

> Oh, and it seems that the Apple "Use location to set timezone and GPS to set time" will use the GPS even if you turned that specific feature off - unless all location servies have been turned off. Or at least, that's my experience, but it might just mean my phone is bugged

You sure it isn't just getting that info from the cell towers?

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#169

I like all the new things coming in iOS11, including this. I recently got my first iPhone and it's on iOS10. Do users like me get to upgrade just the OS on the same handset when they release iOS11? I haven't found the answer to this on some of the apple articles I have browsed.

> I like all the new things coming in iOS11, including this. Killing 32b-only-applications i do not like :/

Killing 32-bit-only-applications sucks for those apps that haven't been updated in years, but it speeds up the OS and should give you a bit of disk space back as well.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#170
post #165
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is annoying. My kids play some games on their phones I downloaded back in 2009. Lemonade art and is one. The game doesn't even appear on the App Store anymore and only works with older versions of iOS, but if your phone is compatible you can still download it from the 'Purchased Apps' section. All that will go away, but on the other hand I really don't expect them to support 32bit apps forever. You always have the…

>You always have the option of simply not upgrading iOS. It's a trade off. Unfortunately, Apple gives you no way to opt-out of updates. I've figured out a way to block them at the firewall level, which seems to work, for now.

Apple doesn't force updates. You can simply ignore the OTA update. I believe you'll get prompted again every time a new update is released, but hitting "Ignore" occasionally is a small price to pay.
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