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iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

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Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#151

Post by technofiend »

steffan wrote: post #148
technofiend wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why IOS needs profiles. It's that or you just uninstall the app after each use, which is a pain.

It's not necessary to uninstall the app after each use to prevent tracking - in Settings...Privacy...Location Services, you can disable location on a per-app basis. (this is admittedly a pain, and Apple enforcing in-use-only option availability is a welcome change)

Usually these snoopy apps refuse to run unless you enable it first. So you still have to remember to turn it back off when you're done.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#152

Post by natch »

allover wrote: post #108
dghughes wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's a map app thats its nature.

There's no good reason it should do so when backgrounded.

>There's no good reason it should do so when backgrounded.

Wrong, and it's especially irksome that just because you cannot think of a good reason, you leap to the unfounded conclusion that there is no good reason.

When you are driving and not using the app and not even thinking about the fact that you have the app, and not planning to use it, it can still be gathering useful traffic information to help route other users according to the current conditions on the route you are traveling. By the way this takes a super negligible amount of power because it can piggyback its use of system services (location, data transmission, etc.) on top of other already running services.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#153

Post by kingnight »

aeontech wrote: post #138
kingnight wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ I am implying that they are storing iMessages unencrypted. The iMessages on iPhones/iPads are part of the 'backup' for each device and they are not encrypted at rest on the iCloud server.

You sound very sure of this, what's your source? As far as I've read, the iCloud backups have always been encrypted at rest, and Apple is apparently working on improving it to the point where they do not hold any decryption keys to the backups [0]. That's why, when you set up a new device, up until now it would not have your message history - because the message history can only be decrypted on devices that are alrea…

My source, while I wholly acknowledge this is anecdotal and not evidence, is someone in law enforcement tasked with retrieving message logs for investigations. I was pretty skeptical but I've yet found any proof or documentation from Apple's support docs disproving this.

I also recall from the San Bernadino case that the FBI/Apple had the ability to get historic message history from the iCloud backup but the FBI pushed for decrypting the device because of the most recent and not backed up messages.

As for your scenario -- doesn't that explicitly confirm that the messages are not encrypted safely at rest? You can restore to an entirely new device, using the same backup, and retrieve the messages.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#154

Post by hobbyjogger »

3pt14159 wrote: post #26
tfoil2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screw any app that really thinks it needs my precise coordinates in the foreground, let alone the background. Turn-by-turn directions in maps is the only exception I've found in 10 years of iPhone use.

I want to be tracked by Google. I went out of my way to turn it on in iPhone. My location is leaked to cell towers and by what wifi network I'm connecting through anyway, and I'd rather be able to figure out which cool restaurant I went to months after my visit to Vilnius is over. Plus my memory of my personal life is so unreliable, especially if I don't have any context, so if I'm ever in court I'd like to be able t…

I agree. This link came at the perfect time.

A car dealership who botched a warranty repair on my vehicle is stonewalling me - once they realized the error was likely to cost them $2k - $3k, their service department deleted my file and began claiming no evidence exists that I had ever been to their location. I got the scheduling department to confirm my appointment and just found my location history for that day showing that I was at the dealership right on time during the appointment. Going to send this to the manufacturer's corporate complaints departments. Thanks for the heads up.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#155

Post by s73ver »

dghughes wrote: post #96
FussyZeus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feel bad, most Americans don't have privacy rights either. :) I've been saying this for awhile, that I trust Apple a lot more since they aren't directly incentivized to sell out their users for advertising. I LOVE iOS as a platform, as a user of both Android and Windows Phone there is simply no comparison, iOS blows both away.

>...since they aren't directly incentivized to sell out their users for advertising... Is that due to Apple being pro consumer privacy or because they have $250 billion in cash? When the cache of cash drops does Apple start adding ads and tracking its users?

It's because their business model involves making stuff, and selling that stuff to people for a profit.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#156

Post by seanp2k2 »

natch wrote: post #150
gigatexal wrote: post #3

Fantastic. Screw Uber for only having the option to always use or never use.

I'm as willing as the next guy to dump on Uber, but in this case Apple didn't leave them many options. If they chose "while in use" then a ton of functionality would never be possible for any user whatsoever... because the only options they had were, to coin some temporary terms: Option A: "All or nothing with behavior 1 (while app is in use only)" or Option B: "All or nothing with behavior 2 (always use location whe…

Sorry, what functionality do I need from a ride sharing app while I'm not using it to hail a ride, wait for a ride, or while on a ride? Given Uber's infamous "hustle" and some of their other software hijinks, I very much doubt that their intentions in this decision were for the benefit of their users. I'd further wager that they use this info to e.g. Track when an Uber user takes a Lyft or competing ride service ride. I don't personally have evidence of this occurring, but given e.g. https://m.slashdot.org/story/324911 and that it's technically possible, I would assume that they're doing it.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#157

Post by seanp2k2 »

hobbyjogger wrote: post #154
3pt14159 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be tracked by Google. I went out of my way to turn it on in iPhone. My location is leaked to cell towers and by what wifi network I'm connecting through anyway, and I'd rather be able to figure out which cool restaurant I went to months after my visit to Vilnius is over. Plus my memory of my personal life is so unreliable, especially if I don't have any context, so if I'm ever in court I'd like to be able t…

I agree. This link came at the perfect time. A car dealership who botched a warranty repair on my vehicle is stonewalling me - once they realized the error was likely to cost them $2k - $3k, their service department deleted my file and began claiming no evidence exists that I had ever been to their location. I got the scheduling department to confirm my appointment and just found my location history for that day show…

Dealerships. And people wonder why dealership groups are lobbying like crazy to keep Tesla out of their state.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#158

Post by seanp2k2 »

gvurrdon wrote: post #68
3pt14159 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be tracked by Google. I went out of my way to turn it on in iPhone. My location is leaked to cell towers and by what wifi network I'm connecting through anyway, and I'd rather be able to figure out which cool restaurant I went to months after my visit to Vilnius is over. Plus my memory of my personal life is so unreliable, especially if I don't have any context, so if I'm ever in court I'd like to be able t…

I've been using this for precisely the reasons you mention: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/where-have-i-been/id64155398... Google's location history is excellent and I'd gladly pay for an equivalent application which I could self-host and set up with the minimum of hassle, but having them do it creeps me out too much. I've not managed to work out how to get OwnTracks to substitute fully for it.

Awesome, thanks for the link. I had been using Moves by ProtoGeo https://appsto.re/us/PNDwE.i and it's not very accurate. Still good for going back and remembering that awesome random place you found on vacation after the fact so you can recommend it.

I also wish the NSA had something like a personal data explore, but I know that will never happen.

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#159

Post by seanp2k2 »

natch wrote: post #152
allover wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no good reason it should do so when backgrounded.

>There's no good reason it should do so when backgrounded. Wrong, and it's especially irksome that just because you cannot think of a good reason, you leap to the unfounded conclusion that there is no good reason. When you are driving and not using the app and not even thinking about the fact that you have the app, and not planning to use it, it can still be gathering useful traffic information to help route other us…

Then explain that to users and let them decide what they want to share instead of opting everyone in by default with no choice to opt out (this is really more "forcing" than "opting" if there is no option).

Re: iOS 11 Location Privacy: "Only While Using" is now always an option for users

#160

Post by derefr »

crooked-v wrote: post #147
DavideNL wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also need to decrypt the data in order to serve it to their users. That's the point, they don't (and shouldn't) need to. As Apple itself says in the above linked article: "Apple is working to further harden iCloud security so that even it won't be able to access user information stored on its data servers"

Web access means that you've always got one of three things: 1) the company has the encryption key 2) you give the company the encryption key each time you log in and they store it temporarily 3) everything is getting decrypted in the browser locally (probably tremendously infeasible)

#3 is how Mega works.
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