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Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

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Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#351

Post by s0rce »

Zergy wrote: post #348
eagletusk wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for like 0.5% of the climb they could do that, if Alex was close and he could somehow get a harness on, they could help him. If he got injured it's not like he could step left and there is a magical video game ledge that appears, It's all or nothing.

Its a multi pitch route. There are multiple ledges that can be comfortably sat on. Assuming the injury isn't to catastrophic he could make it to one of those points and be rescued. That being said anyone trying to claim the climb isn't "pure" enough it mental.

Somewhat related: http://semi-rad.com/2017/05/but-did-you-really-climb-it/

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#352

Post by scottcha »

kbenson wrote: post #306
patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

I think the main thing you need to realize is that is climbing with ropes there is a lot of overhead involved to do it safely. I'd say about 1/8th of the time is climbing the other 7/8 is spent with the logistics of the rope management, partner management and placing protection in the rock. With free soloing you can focus entirely on the climbing and not on the logistics. I honestly think its more about this focus and flow and less about the cheating death.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#353

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

betenoire wrote: post #65
Lordarminius wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a climber. What's the chalk for ?

it's 50% placebo, 50% soaks up the sweat so you don't feel like you are pulling on a sheet of glass. My ratios may be wrong, adjust to taste.

There's a mental aspect (chalk = business time) but it's not a placebo. Have someone deadlift with a particular grip with and without chalk, and they'll lift more with the chalk, no question. It helps grip.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#354

Post by Rapzid »

tmh79 wrote: post #342
kbenson wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you really want to understand just how impressive this was: I have no doubt it's impressive. I'm impressed. I'm not trying to diminish that in any way. > you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same. My question is why is the sense of achievement not the same. I…

Free soloing is "inherently easier" in the physical sense when you abstract danger from situation, climbing with ropes slows a team down significantly. That is one of the reasons AH was able to climb the route in 4 hours as opposed to the usual 4 days. In your hypothetical scenario the answer is yes, if there is no danger, the achievement of climbing without ropes is lessened. The experience of free soloing is to sma…

This is my own experience with the very miniscule free-solo experience I have and even with trad leading over sport, over top rope.

If it's within my abilities/condition, I get into a much more zen/like zone doing trad leads vs coming up second. Or even leads in a gym. I really don't like falling, so that focuses me up and the world just fades away. It's all managing foot position, burn, effort level, pace, etc.

On the other hand, if it's outside my ability/condition and I'm shaky with failing energy... It's the worst experience in the world(overcoming it feels nice though lol).

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#355

Post by petertodd »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #339
petertodd wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

El Capitan is granite, and perhaps even more importantly, it's very heavily climbed so for the most part anything that can break will have already been broken off by someone else.

Yeah, I'm just saying the things that go wrong depends on where you're climbing.

Yup, you're 100% correct there.

For example, I've personally done quite a bit of what's actually free soloing in cave exploration, but that style of climbing is done in confined spaces with rock on every side. You're much less dependent on individual holds as you'll usually be supporting yourself by pushing against the rock with your whole body, so it's a lot safer than most free soloing - even if you do fall you have a good chance of self arresting by, and if you can't you can at least slow your fall significantly and just slide to the bottom.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#356

Post by et-al »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #249
et-al wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you said, it's not uncommon for people's feet to slip out from under them. A big part of climbing is the friction your shoes have against the rock, but move around, reach for something, and angle of your foot against the rock changes, along with the friction, and zoosh: your foot slides off. The rock can break off ("chossy" climbs, Pinnacles is notorious for this), but that's a less common occurrence than Hollyw…

Depends on the rock. The sandstone along Sydney's eastern beaches can be fragile in places.

Yeah, sandstone and water don't mix.

I was highlighting the sudden surprises that tend to catch a climber off-guard. If someone is climbing on wet sandstone, they should already be cognisant that it may crumble. (They should also avoid climbing it when wet so that they don't break holds, but that's another topic on stewardship.)

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#357

Post by baddox »

artursapek wrote: post #338
kbenson wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable , and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stat…

Perhaps there's an athletic nuance as well - a roped-in climber can rest at any point during the climb by just hanging there, whereas a free-soloer can only rest at certain ledges along the way that naturally let him do that. It takes crazy stamina and self-discipline. Overall I agree with you that most of the feat seems to be about the risk, but there may be more to it (I'm not a climber).

Isn't the type of resting already distinguished from non-supported resting in competitive or high-level climbing? I know that the term "free climbing" means that you use ropes and supports for safety, but not to aid you in any way.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#358

Post by patejam »

kbenson wrote: post #336
jjaredsimpson wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to embrace the ambiguity in natural languages. Life and death can be simply considered opposites. In this mode of thinking any risky behavior is trading in death at the peril of life. However you can also imagine a justification along these lines: There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Some of these are familiar things like falling in love or…

> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable , and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stat…

I think there's such a pushback on the term "cheating death" because it sounds like "I should have died, but I didn't", when in reality that's not what the thought process is. The thought process is "of course I'm not going to die because of x y and z".

For me, the best way to describe it is that I strive to feel in control in progressively more difficult environments. That's the mental state I'm looking for. The progression of the mental state goals are easy to follow:

Top Rope (rope already set up above you): "I feel in control despite me being 40' off the ground"

Lead climbing (bring the rope up and clip into the wall as you go): "I feel in control despite me having to take a big fall if I fail"

Outdoor climbing: "I feel control despite me climbing real cliffs outside"

And you can follow this all the way to free soloing, where you can feel in control despite having no safety net at all. I'm not going to pretend that I understand Honnold, and I don't free solo, but this line of thinking makes sense to me.

The other off topic reasons I climb are:

1. Getting better at a sport, just like any other sport/hobby.

2. I like the outdoors and adventure, climbing is a great way to see things from a perspective most can't.

3. Fitness

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#359

Post by baddox »

kbenson wrote: post #331
cjonas wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same. Free-soloing (climbing without ropes) is the purest form of climbing. Not stopping to place protection, not having to bring up your partner, not having to haul a bag... It's just you on the wall. It takes most climber mul…

> If you really want to understand just how impressive this was: I have no doubt it's impressive. I'm impressed. I'm not trying to diminish that in any way. > you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same. My question is why is the sense of achievement not the same. I…

I don't see why it has to be about cheating death. What about just the fact that you're accomplishing the climb yourself, with as little external help as possible? A free solo climb doesn't even use any tools, other than climbing shoes and presumably light clothing. Having a massive drone flying next to you or a safety elevator makes it much less about just you and nature.

Imagine you completely reproduced a famous climb indoors with a 3D printer. Surely you can understand the difference between climbing that and climbing the real thing, even if the physical difficulty is identical.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#360

Post by eicossa »

hourislate wrote: post #311
kbenson wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

I would like Alex to get tested for toxoplasmosis. It would explain a lot.

Is the link between risky behaviour and a toxoplasmosis infection that well established ?
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