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Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

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Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#331

Post by kbenson »

cjonas wrote: post #315
kbenson wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same. Free-soloing (climbing without ropes) is the purest form of climbing. Not stopping to place protection, not having to bring up your partner, not having to haul a bag... It's just you on the wall. It takes most climber mul…

> If you really want to understand just how impressive this was:

I have no doubt it's impressive. I'm impressed. I'm not trying to diminish that in any way.

> you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same.

My question is why is the sense of achievement not the same. Is it because of the danger, or because it's inherently harder when you abstract danger from the situation?

> Free-soloing (climbing without ropes) is the purest form of climbing. ... not having to bring up your partner, not having to haul a bag

That's the closest I've seen to a an actual differentiation. Here's the question: If you could Free-solo the same wall but with without (or greatly reduced) danger? That is, hypothetically assume there's tracks installed vertically in the wall, and a robot that you are attached to ascends with you, so if you fall the robot keeps you from falling far and getting hurt. Does that somehow dampen the feeling of achievement when completed? If the answer is yes, then I fail to see how it's not about cheating death in some part.

Which is fine! Just own that shit.

I'm not making a value judgement about people doing this, I'm just trying to understand that statement. Either it is about cheating death to some degree and the author is not being truthful to someone (us or himself) for whatever reason, or it isn't about cheating death and I don't understand it at all, so I'm asking for clarification. Either I understand it, even if I don't practice it, or I don't understand it, in which case I want to. It sounds like it's about cheating death (even if just to get to some desired state easier).

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#332

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

maxxxxx wrote: post #211
function_seven wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when they do make the attempt, and fail, and die, they will be fine examples I'm sure. Mr. Honnold is obviously not interested in serving as a safety example, not sure why many here insist he fulfill that role.

I have no problem with him but I think the media should not make him into a hero.

The idea that glorified media coverage would make someone think they're capable of free soloing a 3,000' 5.12d who didn't already have that idea in their head is pretty laughable. No one who climbs thinks that just because Honnold does something that they can do it too.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#333

Post by vlasev »

weaksauce wrote: post #298
pcmonk wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I agree. I guess I'm saying that if you want to live that life, that's great, go shrink your amygdala. However, if you haven't chosen that, then a smaller amygdala may not help you live a better life.

reducing the amygdala would be a win in stress and anxiety management though which would touch all aspects of life.

And that's the point. A lot of us walk around with certain fears that would be best to be put behind us. This kind of thing helps, indeed.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#334

Post by vlasev »

pcmonk wrote: post #257
komali2 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what a life they lead. Considering you and I have a 100% chance of death anyway, I see the attraction.

Oh, I agree. I guess I'm saying that if you want to live that life, that's great, go shrink your amygdala. However, if you haven't chosen that, then a smaller amygdala may not help you live a better life.

This stuff is not so that you'd go out there and live a life like Alex. It's more of a, face some of your own irrational fears, sort of thing.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#335

Post by xixor2 »

zdean wrote: post #218
jonah wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most striking quotes for me was: "Alex once told me that he had never fallen completely unexpectedly—meaning without at least some prior inclination that it could happen. When I told him that I had unexpectedly fallen at least ten times, he looked confused, like somehow that didn’t compute." It really illustrates what a professional Alex is and how in-tune he is with his skills and his craft.

Having never tried rock climbing, I'm curious what the potential causes of catastrophic events would be on this kind of a climb (that would necessitate safety gear for most climbers in the first place)...pieces of rock that give out under a hand/foot, appendage slipping out of place, etc.?

weather

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#336

Post by kbenson »

jjaredsimpson wrote: post #321
kbenson wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

You have to embrace the ambiguity in natural languages. Life and death can be simply considered opposites. In this mode of thinking any risky behavior is trading in death at the peril of life. However you can also imagine a justification along these lines: There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Some of these are familiar things like falling in love or…

> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states.

Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable, and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stated makes it sound like there's something other than risk that's inherently different about free-soloing.

People are responding as if I said I don't understand why someone would do a risky behavior. I understand the high from cheating death. I don't understand doing something as risky as this if you aren't necessarily looking for that high, as the statement implied to me.

The alternative as I see it is that the author is reluctant to admit, or in denial about, some of the real reasons to free-solo. I didn't want to assume that without first checking my own assumptions.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#337

Post by artursapek »

eagletusk wrote: post #304
dagw wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he found himself unable to continue due to injury or fatigue they'd be able to help him down. But yea, extremely dumb comment.

Maybe for like 0.5% of the climb they could do that, if Alex was close and he could somehow get a harness on, they could help him. If he got injured it's not like he could step left and there is a magical video game ledge that appears, It's all or nothing.

No, but the photos showed that there are several rest points along the way. Presumably he'd try to get to the nearest one despite his injury.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#338

Post by artursapek »

kbenson wrote: post #336
jjaredsimpson wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to embrace the ambiguity in natural languages. Life and death can be simply considered opposites. In this mode of thinking any risky behavior is trading in death at the peril of life. However you can also imagine a justification along these lines: There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Some of these are familiar things like falling in love or…

> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable , and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stat…

Perhaps there's an athletic nuance as well - a roped-in climber can rest at any point during the climb by just hanging there, whereas a free-soloer can only rest at certain ledges along the way that naturally let him do that. It takes crazy stamina and self-discipline.

Overall I agree with you that most of the feat seems to be about the risk, but there may be more to it (I'm not a climber).

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#339

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

petertodd wrote: post #254
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the rock. The sandstone along Sydney's eastern beaches can be fragile in places.

El Capitan is granite, and perhaps even more importantly, it's very heavily climbed so for the most part anything that can break will have already been broken off by someone else.

Yeah, I'm just saying the things that go wrong depends on where you're climbing.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#340

Post by skookumchuck »

kbenson wrote: post #306
patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but…

By cheating death, one becomes famous. The article and this thread is proof of that. Being famous supplies many advantages and privileges.
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