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Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

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Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#301

Post by dctoedt »

weaksauce wrote: post #295
jonah wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luck only lasts so long. You don't last long at sports like this if you aren't cautious and well-trained, that's for sure. I'll offer a counter anecdote to yours: I was talking to a guy this weekend who had been a serious hang-glider for over a decade when he was younger. Every time a friend would have a problem, he analyzed it and saw that because of the way he operated he wouldn't make the same mistake and could th…

There is an old saying in climber culture: "There are old climbers. There are bold climbers... but, there are no old, bold climbers."

My dad used to say the same about fighter pilots (he was one).

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#302

Post by nerfhammer »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #141
patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

I've read an article recently - someone actually scanned Honnold's brain and it turns out his amygdala does not respond in the usual way to inputs that in most people would elicit fear. In colloquial terms, he's "fearless". If true, that would explain a lot.

Damasio reviews evidence that people that lose the ability to feel certain emotions make worse decisions. It seemingly simply doesn't occur to them to not do dangerous things and there are cases where it leads to systematically bad decisions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_marker_hypothesis

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#303

Post by CamperBob2 »

DontGiveTwoFlux wrote: post #123
mindcrime wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's the difference here? Free-climb - uses ropes for safety in the event of a fall, but does not use ropes for assistance climbing. Free-solo - no ropes at all. Just hands, feet and chalk, basically. IOW, you fall, you die.

Another difference - The free climbing on the Dawn Wall allowed for mistakes because of the ropes. Jorgesen (and maybe Caldwell, I can't recall) both took falls while attempting to climb the wall. The spirit of free climbing is that you do each pitch (basically one rope's length) without falling at least once. If you fall, you go back to the beginning of the pitch. That way, you have essentially climbed the whole rou…

Honnold's free solo is amazing because he did not make a mistake and have to use the rope. Every move was executed perfectly.

It was amazing because there was no rope.

Also the fastest ascent of Freerider, for the same reason.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#304

Post by eagletusk »

dagw wrote: post #251
throwaway91111 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even sensical—like there was anything one could have done to help him in the event of a fall.

If he found himself unable to continue due to injury or fatigue they'd be able to help him down. But yea, extremely dumb comment.

Maybe for like 0.5% of the climb they could do that, if Alex was close and he could somehow get a harness on, they could help him.

If he got injured it's not like he could step left and there is a magical video game ledge that appears, It's all or nothing.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#305

Post by dctoedt »

jonah wrote: post #278
psyc wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take the same thing from that quote. I have a good friend who has become one of the top competition paraglider pilots in the world. A lot of paragliders see him as doing terrifying, reckless things. He's told me that he considers himself a conservative pilot, and that he doesn't take risks. I agree with his self-assessment. I've known him a long time, and saw him ascend through a long, well-ordered series of increm…

Luck only lasts so long. You don't last long at sports like this if you aren't cautious and well-trained, that's for sure. I'll offer a counter anecdote to yours: I was talking to a guy this weekend who had been a serious hang-glider for over a decade when he was younger. Every time a friend would have a problem, he analyzed it and saw that because of the way he operated he wouldn't make the same mistake and could th…

> ... he wouldn't make the same mistake and could therefore rationalize his continued participation in the sport.

In the early chapters of the book The Right Stuff, Tom Wolfe says that this was the normal attitude among test pilots about their brethren who crashed and died. "How could anybody fail to check his hose connections? And how could anybody be in such poor condition as to pass out that quickly from hypoxia? ... One theorem was: There are no accidents and no fatal flaws in the machines; there are only pilots with the Wrong Stuff. (I.e., blind Fate can't kill me.)"

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#306

Post by kbenson »

patejam wrote: post #130

By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free... As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject. Caldwell is in an inter…

It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but I know one thing for certain: Alex climbs to live, not to cheat death.

Can someone help me understand this? How is doing something without safety equipment that you can do with with safety equipment climbing to live, but not about cheating death? What is the point of foregoing safety if not to somehow eke something out of the increased danger, whether it be adrenaline, or a period of increased focus, or fame?

If it's not about someone being addicted to adrenaline or looking for fame, then I just don't understand it. At all. As in it's so foreign to me that I can't even begin to understand it.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#307

Post by jonah »

petertodd wrote: post #254
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the rock. The sandstone along Sydney's eastern beaches can be fragile in places.

El Capitan is granite, and perhaps even more importantly, it's very heavily climbed so for the most part anything that can break will have already been broken off by someone else.

In the Outside article up thread, Tommy Caldwell who free climbed the route with Alex a couple weeks ago mentions loose rock as scaring him: "I went to Yosemite last week over the Memorial Day holiday and we did a practice lap on the Freerider with a rope. High on the wall, panting and sweating, feet smearing on crispy flakes that made crunching noises as I stepped on them."

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#308

Post by jonah »

psyc wrote: post #290
jonah wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luck only lasts so long. You don't last long at sports like this if you aren't cautious and well-trained, that's for sure. I'll offer a counter anecdote to yours: I was talking to a guy this weekend who had been a serious hang-glider for over a decade when he was younger. Every time a friend would have a problem, he analyzed it and saw that because of the way he operated he wouldn't make the same mistake and could th…

So, both of the replies to my comment seem like they assume there's a need for a strong assurance that "it won't happen to me." I know hundreds of para/hang pilots, and I think the majority of them don't think about it that way. We already made a fundamental decision to risk life and limb to fly. We engage in that kind of analysis continually , and collectively. Our conversations are like 80% post-mortem, all the tim…

We had two high-profile paragliding deaths over the past year in my area. One, a seasoned pro who'd flown (and instructed) here for decades apparently took a risky line (if you don't have enough altitude or updrafts to make it over a saddle, there's nowhere to go) and didn't make it. She knew the area well and knew the issues but something went wrong - what specifically happened is unknown of course, maybe canopy collapse. The second was a father who took his daughter up, failed to clip himself in correctly somehow, got disconnected, and fell 1000 feet. His daughter didn't know how to fly but survived her subsequent crash landing.

* I'm not a paraglider, so apologies if the terminology is off.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#309

Post by mbostleman »

FrojoS wrote: post #180
AcerbicZero wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end it is his choice.

No, climbing without a rope is the purest form of the sport and has been around for longer than nylon ropes and harnesses. I don't know much about F1 races but I guess say a fairer comparison would be doing time trials alone on the track versus actual races where you risk the collision with other drivers. The former is safer but the latter is more interesting, not just because it's more dangerous. Maybe this video gi…

For added context, Steph Davis was previously married to Dean Potter (free soloist among numerous other things - mentioned above in the list of famous free soloists) and Mario Richard, both of whom died in wingsuit BASE jumps. Steph Davis is also a BASE jumper using wingsuits and parachutes.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#310

Post by iamnotlarry »

maxxxxx wrote: post #118
takk309 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your position but I disagree. Honnold is well aware of the risks and has prepared as necessary to accomplish this feat. The media needs to better report on that aspect.

There will be people trying to imitate this who don't know what they are getting into. In my view he could have shown the same level of accomplishment in a safer way and set an example.

Anybody who tries to imitate this without knowing what they are doing won't make it 10 meters, let alone 1000 meters. To even make it to the face of El Cap, you have to have some idea what you are doing.
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