On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return • Hacker News Board

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#171

Post by anon182429 » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

staticelf wrote: post #47

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

You sound like a butthurt European who lives in a fantasy land where opportunity costs and taxes don't exist.

Call me in 20 years when the hordes of "migrants" steal all your wealth through these "free" programs. Then maybe you'll understand just how expensive "free" can be.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#172

Post by DSMan195276 » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #76

ma2rten wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, education in America is expensive. If tuition was free or cheap, you could work part-time to pay living expenses and take more time to finish your degree as many students in Europe do.

I went to two years of community college for under 2k. My parents invested in a state program when I was younger which promised to pay for 4 years of state schooling. Not sure exactly how much they put in, but had you withdrawn the amount to use it for private schooling it was like 10k, so I'm assuming not much more than that. Because community college was so cheap, I was able to use that other funding to pay for a g…

I agree completely, I have no idea why you're being down-voted. I got a 4-year bachelor's degree in CSE at my community college (through a partnership with a bigger name school). I did all 4 years at the local college, and it would have cost me less then 30k for the entire program. However with scholarships (Which over half of my class receives) I graduated without any debt at all.

There are options for cheap schooling out there.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#173

Post by umeshunni » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:46 PM UTC

ada1981 wrote: post #161

Consider an undergraduate program where ~150 people each contributed say $50,000 each to collectively buy a large parcel of land and create their own eco-regenerative village. That would be $7.5 MM dollars. Over the course of a few years they would build micro-homes, permaculture farms, invent, build, hack, create art, take free online courses, host traveling scholars, incubate start-up ideas, etc. They'd be a self-s…

So, how do these people learn the skills to build houses, physics and math skills that are required to 'invent', basic electrical and computer science skills to know how to program and so on?

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#174

Post by cmurf » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:47 PM UTC

staticelf wrote: post #47

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

25% of the people in the U.S. believe in classism, and that everything is a product subject to the free market, including education. Sometimes (hand wave) it's acceptable to have very basic public versions that are free for primary and secondary education but beyond that it's socialism (and therefore evil).

25% want to get everyone at the same horse stall starting gate, and then compete. Getting to the same starting gate involves some socialism, but it's supposed to neutralize things like race, class, gender, geography. And then you compete.

Those two groups are fighting which is why the political situation is why it's so acrimonious right now.

And a 3rd group, 50%, maybe give a crap but they hate politics and don't get involved.

Also, most of education happens at a state and local level, where political participation is pretty dreadful so you get even more extremes, and pretty much right now overwhelmingly counties in the U.S. are red/Republican states and they think already there's too much money spend on public schools, and more public money should go to private schools, i.e. make things competitive.

(Hilariously, Republicans think in health care, an option to buy into Medicare to make things more competitive is evil, probably because it's evil whenever the government does something good.)

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#175

Post by pas » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:47 PM UTC

forkandwait wrote: post #168

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

> Wasting four years is a huge cost. At college I: learned calculus, computer programming, advanced mathematics, urban planning, how to communicate like a grown up, and those are just the big topics. I also took acting classes and learned social skills and made lifelong friends. When I graduated, a professor arranged my first professional job which was an order of magnitude better than any blue collar gig I had ever…

> I think there is a problem when [naive -> people], go to college and ...

That's the problem. It's not a good system. Too many false positives.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#176

Post by johnfn » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:47 PM UTC

throwawayjava wrote: post #107

johnfn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't actually recommending you do that. It's a hypothetical situation intended as social commentary.

But the hypothetical breaks down once you consider it as a proposal, which makes for a dubious social commentary. Hypothesis testing is far more valuable than pure hypothetical! Governments are willing to subsidize loans for education but not investing for at least two entirely rational reasons. First, an educated populous -- especially college educated, and especially in STEM fields -- is in the public interest. We…

> But the hypothetical breaks down once you consider it as a proposal,

...again, that's why you don't do that with hypotheticals intended to be social commentary.

The article is saying "wow, college is sure overpriced for the amount of money you invest."

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#177

Post by muninn_ » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

vowelless wrote: post #68

staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

On the other hand, one should wonder why college is so expensive in the US in the first place. Even without any subsidies, non-American tuition is a fraction of the cost of the big universities in the US. Why? Why are book so expensive here? Why is so much money spent on buildings, stadiums and hiring football coaches? The highest paid public employee in 39 states in the US is a college sports coach! [1] Throwing mor…

While the college coach is often highly paid, keep in mind that the football program usually brings in a boatload of money, and that money goes on to subsidize other NCAA sports and in many cases even returns money back to the university.

I'm not a fan of the sports-fetish of college sports, but I do want to make a balanced point for others to consider.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#178

Post by yusyusyus » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #108

aaron-lebo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to two years of community college for under 2k. My parents invested in a state program when I was younger which promised to pay for 4 years of state schooling. Not sure exactly how much they put in, but had you withdrawn the amount to use it for private schooling it was like 10k, so I'm assuming not much more than that. Because community college was so cheap, I was able to use that other funding to pay for a g…

We have students transfer in from the local community college. They struggle mightily, some even survive. With online labs in the physical sciences (instead of real glassware) it's an experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. You can't call it education, the level is too low for that.

This may be true in the situation you're looking at. In neither of the community colleges that I have been to has this been the case. We've been in real laboratory sciences with skilled instructors and successful students have gone on to do well in university.

I think, though, the point is worth mentioning: not all community colleges are as good as the ones I've been to. Students would be well advised to consider the options and opportunities prior to matriculation (especially in light of an order of magnitude difference between even state university and community colleges).

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#179

Post by DSMan195276 » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #108

aaron-lebo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to two years of community college for under 2k. My parents invested in a state program when I was younger which promised to pay for 4 years of state schooling. Not sure exactly how much they put in, but had you withdrawn the amount to use it for private schooling it was like 10k, so I'm assuming not much more than that. Because community college was so cheap, I was able to use that other funding to pay for a g…

We have students transfer in from the local community college. They struggle mightily, some even survive. With online labs in the physical sciences (instead of real glassware) it's an experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. You can't call it education, the level is too low for that.

As a counter point, I attended a community college program that partners with a larger school to provide a CSE degree at my local community college. When we have combined classes (Which are taught via video) the students on the community college side on average score a letter grade higher. With that, when students on the main campus join us for some classes (commonly during the summer) they frequently have a hard time due to not learning everything we did in previous classes.

That's not to say you're wrong, but you can't judge every community college program the same. Some of them aren't great (Especially if it's involving online labs, like you pointed out), but some are extremely good.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#180

Post by alkonaut » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

somethingwitty1 wrote: post #125

chillwaves wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the argument is society reaps the benefit of an educated populace, secondly yes, everyone should pay for qualified individuals to go to college, as most or much of the civilized world does. That does not mean free college for everyone. There would still be a stringent entrance exam. It means free college for those who are qualified. Contrast that to the system now where college is seen as just another marketi…

So by keeping out the "unqualified" we continue to increase the gap between the haves and the have nots? I'm not suggesting that is your intention behind the statement, but that is the harsh reality of what will happen. A policy like this will continue to discriminate against the poor and those stuck in areas without access to decent primary/secondary education (inner-city comes to mind). Despite the numerous issues…

Free higher education is usually seen as the biggest helper of social mobility.

In the US there is one more fundamental issue that needs to be addressed: the use of local school funding in school districts. Had schools been properly funded with more funds going to schools that need more resources (I.e schools where parents don't have higher education get more money per student than schools where they do) then having grades/tests as a qualification for free can be done without discriminating.