On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return • Hacker News Board

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#41

Post by damm » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

Unfortunately he might have a good point; but the path he took doesn't really show it.

It would be more difficult because you should be looking at the cost of education; the average income of the person who has graduated.

Unfortunately you will need to do something for each skin color because they discriminate against minorities and other different variations. (Not being straight; too flamboyant, etc)

discrimination is a very big thing in America; lots of false sense of entitlement.

No need to call it racism; it's much bigger than that.

> Footnote; I have a form of Autism that makes lenders not want to work with me.

Happens in all shapes and forms. If you are a woman or if you are black; if you go to a Chinese banker you will have better luck as a asian or white person.

Something we need to work on; it's going to take hundreds of years and we need to keep at it.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#42

Post by efa » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #25

popcorncolonel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people whose parents are paying for college already have more of an advantage so they would be more likely to have an ROI from college.

Actually, from the student's perspective, there would be a 0 investment, so ROI becomes infinite.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Say a grandparent left a grandchild 50k for college. It's the grandchild's money. The grandchild could choose to invest in college or the market. This may not be a common scenario but that's what I meant.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#43

Post by bhouston » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

Some jobs are only accessible with a college degree (dental hygenist, etc.) If you didn't have a college degree you couldn't get access to those jobs and you then may have a more competitive job market for those jobs that do not require a college degree. Thus without college there would be more people in the bottom pool of job seekers thus increasing competition and likely lowering wages in that bottom pool, and it will likely raise the wages of those who do have college education when they are seeking jobs that require that degree.

It sort of seems like we have too many educated people and not enough good jobs that require that education. That seems like the fundamental problem.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#44

Post by johnfn » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:34 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #6

How do you skip college and invest the tuition in the S&P 500? Ah, you can't: Of course, lenders won't give out large loans for an individual to skip college and dump tuition into the stock market, this is just a hypothetical scenario. So this article is unrealistic.

The article isn't actually recommending you do that. It's a hypothetical situation intended as social commentary.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#45

Post by eqmvii » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #36

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #6

How do you skip college and invest the tuition in the S&P 500? Ah, you can't: Of course, lenders won't give out large loans for an individual to skip college and dump tuition into the stock market, this is just a hypothetical scenario. So this article is unrealistic.

This is the kicker. Similarly, the stock market outperforms property on the regular, but banks won't lend you hundreds of thousands of beans to get involved in the stock market, when they'll fall over themselves to give you a mortgage.

Because repossessing property is (statistically speaking) more likely to work out for the bank than repossessing whatever random stocks an investor decided were a sure thing. That's why margin accounts aren't available to everyone, and margin calls kick in to protect the investment firm before total loss.

Housing is volatile, but stocks are significantly more so, and with significantly more near-total losses over time.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#46

Post by krakensden » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me.

Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured.

Plus, the degrees people are actually getting aren't necessarily worth all that much to the educational romantics. Business administration is what it is.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#47

Post by staticelf » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world?

Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you.

What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for free instead of not getting educated?

EDIT: For the butthurt americans, I don't mean that your country isn't modern and I understand that not every country even in europe offer free education. I just think a modern country should offer free education as they offer free roads to travel on.

It works great in every country that has it, why do you think the US would suffer if you started doing the same?

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#48

Post by tvural » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:37 PM UTC

This reminds me of Robin Hanson's criticism of medical spending - exercise and diet are much better predictors of health than money spent on healthcare, meaning that there's a large amount of waste in the system. I suspect something similar here, the amount of money people spend on education is uncorrelated from what they get out of it. The other factors, like whether you went to a top school and what you did in college dominate the ROI. There is a tendency to treat education as an insurance policy, where all you have to do is buy in, and you are somehow protected from falling through the cracks in society. It seems that college as an insurance policy has stopped working if it ever did work, and it exposes a fact that's somewhat uncomfortable, you can't just pay these colleges money to have your career set, you have to figure out what to do yourself.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#49

Post by perseusprime11 » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #6

How do you skip college and invest the tuition in the S&P 500? Ah, you can't: Of course, lenders won't give out large loans for an individual to skip college and dump tuition into the stock market, this is just a hypothetical scenario. So this article is unrealistic.

Even if this is a hypothetical scenario, the larger point the author is trying to make is education is way too expensive and overrated on an apples to apples investment basis. There will certainly be outliers who end up making millions but the majority ends up in debt trying to pay student loans over time.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#50

Post by pokemongoaway » Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 9:40 PM UTC

staticelf wrote: post #47

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

So you're arguing that everyone should pay for it and go to it until we make it free? Why can't we argue using the reality college tuition payers have today? Instead of arguing from a fairy tale reality for high tuition payers...