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On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

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Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#161

Post by ada1981 »

Consider an undergraduate program where ~150 people each contributed say $50,000 each to collectively buy a large parcel of land and create their own eco-regenerative village. That would be $7.5 MM dollars.

Over the course of a few years they would build micro-homes, permaculture farms, invent, build, hack, create art, take free online courses, host traveling scholars, incubate start-up ideas, etc. They'd be a self-sustaining techno-tribal commune.

After 4 years, they'd have the skills to live sustainably, work together, and would have basic food, shelter and community needs taken care of for the rest of their lives, and they would be free to invent, create art, do activist work, help other students boot up similar learning communities, travel among other similar villages the world over, etc.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#165

Post by mrout »

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

Education isn't about money.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#166

Post by mrout »

ooqr wrote: post #121
staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

That's still time opportunity cost for the student and merely shifts the financial burden. I'm not against a liberal education for the betterment of the person, but it's not a sound investment. We should not aim to make college free by means of government sponsorship, but rather education free or inexpensive by means of lowering the actual costs. As someone else said in this thread, certain kinds of knowledge are rat…

The 'actual costs' are not the reason that fees are so high in the USA though.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#167

Post by alkonaut »

rhino369 wrote: post #113
staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

>What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Paying for tution with tax money doesn't make it free. If you aren't willing to invest in yourself, why should society do so? Free college tuition is a waste of resources on the upper middle class.

Doesn't that argument extend to mean that the public shouldn't fund any education? I mean what's the difference between the first ~12 years of school vs the last 2-5? Is the difference that the people are adults and no longer children (and so can be said to be responsible for themselves)?

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#168

Post by forkandwait »

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

> Wasting four years is a huge cost.

At college I: learned calculus, computer programming, advanced mathematics, urban planning, how to communicate like a grown up, and those are just the big topics. I also took acting classes and learned social skills and made lifelong friends. When I graduated, a professor arranged my first professional job which was an order of magnitude better than any blue collar gig I had ever had. Now I have an interesting job that I feel good about, make 90k a year with benefits and a pension, and go home at 5:30 every night; this job would not be possible without college. I took out 20,000 in loans to go for the last two years after transfering from community college (with no loan for that).

So, ... what the fuck did you do at college that you are calling it a "waste"? My life is completely different because I went to college, and the same is true for everyone I know.

Now, I think there is a problem when naive, often blue collar people, go to college and don't know how to make the most of that experience: they don't know how to talk to professors so they get their help and friendship, what courses to take, how to study, how to schedule their own time and not spend it getting wasted, or how to use their degree to get professional jobs afterward. Even though I was a returning student, I grew up in a very educated professional world, and that was not hard for me.

Probably doesn't matter, but I got a BA in math from a mediocre regional state school as returning student, graduating at the age of 30 or 31 (I don't remember).

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#169

Post by netsharc »

staticelf wrote: post #58
pokemongoaway wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're arguing that everyone should pay for it and go to it until we make it free? Why can't we argue using the reality college tuition payers have today? Instead of arguing from a fairy tale reality for high tuition payers...

I think the best solution for individuals in the US is to move to an european country, stay there and work until you get some kind of permenant stay visa or citizenship so you can enter college for free. That usually do not take long for americans. If you have kids you can do it when they're small so they are ready for university when they come of age.

For Germany I know you don't need to be a citizen to be able to take college with the same terms and conditions as natives, it's "free" since most places have a per semester administration fee (5 years ago this was around 100 Euroes). To get a residence permit to study one has to show that one is able to finance one's self, or have someone (e.g. a parent) as a sponsor. The residence permit allows 20 hours/month of part time work for foreigners (or even more if you're working in your area of study), so that is taken into consideration when you go to renew the residence permit every 2 years.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#170

Post by alkonaut »

ma2rten wrote: post #83
staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

like the rest of the modern world Many countries outside of Europe have tuition fees. Do we really have to label those countries as not part of the modern world?

Free higher education and universal healthcare seems like reasonable criteria for "modern". Throw in use of the metric system for good measure(s).
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