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The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

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Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#281

Post by drewg123 »

madengr wrote: post #118
noonespecial wrote: post #51

I thought about this when I visited the Hoover Dam. The audacity of the thing and sheer impossibility of doing anything remotely like it in today's America makes it seem like a relic from an ancient civilization. It felt like visiting the pyramids in Egypt.

The development of the atomic bomb also amazes me. I get a kick out of this video setting up the first test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7CmcsOubZ8 No hard-hats No shirts Free climbing tower with no safety lines Cigarette hanging from mouth No way they could ever pull this off today. No way the Apollo program could be pulled off either.

That reminds me a lot of watching my Dad and my uncles work on my grandfather's farm when we would visit there when I was a kid in the mid 70s. Lots of heavy equipment, no shirts, climbing w/o safety lines, cigarettes in everybody's mouth. Just an attitude of "get it done"

It is no wonder "farmer" is one of the most dangerous occupations in the US. They're the last to be impacted by health and safety regulations.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#282

Post by TulliusCicero »

mason240 wrote: post #233
Mz wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are genuinely trapped. Just because I have been able to pull this off does not mean other people are simply free to choose. Urban cores are often insanely expensive and not necessarily where someone wants to live just because they don't want a car. I am wholly unimpressed with your hypocritical comments here that boil down to "Don't tread on ME or interfere with my right to own a car and drive all over th…

You're replying to a comment where I made clear that I want you to be able to make your own lifestyle preferences.

People can't really though, because of zoning and government planning. Like even if you wanted to make an area more walkable by inviting, say, a corner grocery store to set up shop in your neighborhood, usually you can't, because of single-use zoning.

And before you say, "well then just move to the city center!" perhaps you should consider that we're talking about a very common urban form across the world that is strikingly uncommon in the US due to government forces? Not exactly "people making their lifestyle preferences", more like "government imposing lifestyle preferences", and it's mostly just due to cultural momentum at this point.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#283

Post by empath75 »

bkjelden wrote: post #13

I have been wondering lately if we have become so dependent on certain sectors of the US economy (housing, infrastructure, healthcare, education) that risk aversion is suffocating innovation. No one wants to send their kid to an unproven, experimental university. No city wants to beta test a new style of road building. No patient wants to be the first to try a new treatment. We are so dependent on these things that t…

Think of the economy as having a temperature-- 100 years ago, the US was hotter, more dynamic, more dangerous. And it's gradually settled into a more stable structure. Safer, but harder to make changes.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#284

Post by BearGoesChirp »

rch wrote: post #255
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the test for reasonable constraints on free speech? And what will be the penalty for breaking the ban? If it is just a fine, you have basically just made it so the rich can pay more to have a stronger voice. If it is jail time... well we already know how well the legal system goes after the rich. A law would benefit those who have the power to break it while harming those weaker.

There is a substantial body of case law to consult when deciding reasonable constraints on free speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_...

Reading some of the cases, especially the ones where the court has yet to directly rule otherwise on, are quite chilling in their potential application.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#285

Post by macspoofing »

This article was frustrating to read because it is clear the author did not do one iota of research. He identified a problem with American construction sector being inefficient or not-cost effective and did nothing to even attempt to answer why - yet still managed to stretch that one thought into a 1000 word essay.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#286

Post by bluGill »

mark-r wrote: post #250
bluGill wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as we can tell. Pex is just polyethylene or (C2h4)n - there is nothing about that chemical formula to be particularly concerned about. It doesn't leach anything - when pure water is desired it the most common pipe to specify as it is cheap and works well (glass is better but that is mostly because glass does not allow air to through to dissolve in your water - and obviously more expensive) The alternative is c…

I've noticed that Pex has taken over new construction in my area. I built my house 17 years ago and copper water pipes were still standard. I just assumed cost was the big driver since copper has gone up about 200% in that time. You say that copper will eventually corrode, but how does that compare to the lifetime of Pex?

Good question... Regular polyethylene is rated for 50 years in ground (I was researching geothermo at one point), and experts say that is mostly because nobody wants to bother with caring about things that will happen after they are dead. Generally it is believed we should get 200 years out of it, perhaps more.

PEX has essentially zero resistance to UV, in sun exposure salutations you get a few weeks of lifetime. Most buildings don't expose plumbing to sunlight though. There are a few (very few) chemicals that attack PEXs, but all the ones I know of are nasty enough that I'd wear full protection if I ever have to work with them - not something I expect drinking water will ever contains. Pex is resistant to any PH I'd want to drink.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#287

Post by Mz »

puranjay wrote: post #241
Mz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And America's love affair with the automobile is a well-known abusive relationship that America will never have the courage to leave. From what I have read, Millenials are putting noteworthy pressure on this aspect of American culture. Also, I gave up my car years ago. With the magic of the internet, I work online. I mostly walk everywhere and occasionally take public transit. I think we can change this substantially…

I woke up to a flat tire about two months ago. Don't know why, but that was the breaking point for me. Since then, I haven't driven a single day. I walk, take the metro or get an Uber. I haven't been happier. Driving was easily the worst part of my day.

I have two sons. At the time that we chose to go carless, we were living in an apartment complex with endless speed bumps. Driving over the speed bumps into and out of the complex daily was about 3 minutes of torture that we were completely thrilled to give up.

Humorously, we have had occasion to put me on a bus for some reason while they walked to the destination in question. I would get ahead of them, then the bus would get stuck in traffic and they would get ahead of me. We all arrived at the spot in question within a couple of minutes of each other.

Unless you are driving quite a long distance and/or on the open highway, car travel is not as much faster than foot travel as some people seem to believe. Short local trips don't see as much gain in speed as Americans seem to imagine. I think this belief persists in part because so many people just don't walk anywhere at all. They drive everywhere, even if they are only going 1/4 mile or something silly like that.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#288

Post by Pharylon »

imgabe wrote: post #80

I don't know the answers, but as someone who works in the industry (on the design side). I think a big unmentioned factor is probably liability and the prospect of litigation. If you look at old blueprints for projects in the past, they are a LOT less detailed. They had to be, because it was physically more difficult to produce them since they had to be drawn by hand. A lot was left to the contractor to figure out in…

That's the American Way, though. America abhors regulations, and instead we allow the courts to sort it out.

Europe is less litigious, mainly because they have massive government oversight and regulations.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#289

Post by mason240 »

CodeCube wrote: post #253
chc wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we try to get through one thread on HN without frothing at the mouth about how much we hate cars? Message received, you happen to be in a situation where you don't need a car — I am genuinely happy for you, as well as envious. But it is not necessary or helpful for someone to bang on about it in every single thread that has anything to do with building stuff. It doesn't help anything, and it just annoys people wh…

If people don't bang on about it, nothing will ever change ... seriously, everyone will simply move on and build the next urban sprawl center, and the next shitty road, out to the next desolate subdivision because that's what's easy. No one wants to be agitated. Well, too bad, we _should_ be agitated. Those without the good fortune _should_ raise hell to the city planners, and attend city council meetings, and vote i…

I can't wait for electric SDCs. They will be the final nail in the coffin of anti-folks.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#290

Post by revelation »

pilom wrote: post #110
ori_b wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that as though dams can't be built without killing people. They aren't gifts bestowed by the gods upon the completion of sufficient human sacrifice. Deaths and injuries are minimal with construction equipment and safety techniques.

The Hoover Dam was build for about $800 million inflation adjusted. I'm 100% certain that you couldn't build that structure today for that much without killing people.

Spending $800 million on tons of tiny general construction projects will kill just as many people.
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