They are comparing it to health care, which suffers from a serious excess of bureaucracy. So I will suggest that too much bureaucratic red tape is likely a factor.
The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
171–180 of 564 posts
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#172I recently ran into the MDOT project manager for a rebuild/expansion of a section of I-75. With some googling I found that she was working on the project since 2001 - construction started in 2016 and is not scheduled to be completed until 2030. So she will be working on the project for 30 years; her entire career... something is pretty broken about the government structures around these projects.
I know that this can happen because my wife started her federal government career in one agency working with someone who retired from the agency shortly after she started. This person had spent their entire career at DOT managing projects along the interstate between Houston and Galveston. The expansion/maintenance over that time period guaranteed that nothing was ever truly completed. Crews/contractors simply shifted down the highway to the next place scheduled for repairs or lane additions.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#173I don't know the answers, but as someone who works in the industry (on the design side). I think a big unmentioned factor is probably liability and the prospect of litigation. If you look at old blueprints for projects in the past, they are a LOT less detailed. They had to be, because it was physically more difficult to produce them since they had to be drawn by hand. A lot was left to the contractor to figure out in…
Anecdotally, having moved to Western Europe, I get the sense that this is the major factor as well. If I walk down the street and there is a group of workers excavating a road, there's a lot more of a relaxed attitude about fencing, walking underneath construction equipment, etc. After all - use your common sense - don't fall into the hole. If you do, isn't it kind of your own fault? Nobody's going to sue anybody. Ad…
And America's love affair with the automobile is a well-known abusive relationship that America will never have the courage to leave.
From what I have read, Millenials are putting noteworthy pressure on this aspect of American culture.
Also, I gave up my car years ago. With the magic of the internet, I work online. I mostly walk everywhere and occasionally take public transit.
I think we can change this substantially.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#174Durability. Its one thing to quickly and cheaply add infrastructure, and I've traveled the world to places where this is accomplished at a dizzying pace. Its another thing altogether to engineer and build projects that can endure over time and in the face of natural and unnatural disaster. Yes, the US is overdue for infrastructure investment. Yes, its costly and unproductive Federal and State entitlement obligations…
It doesn't fit. Railway systems in Japan and France (taken as example in the article) are high quality and last long as well. Yet construction railway is way less expensive there.
>Railway systems in Japan and France (taken as example in the article) are high quality and last long as well.
Not only this but the engineering challenges overcome in France and especially Japan are much more than we would likely face here in the continental US. Japan has rail service between islands under the seafloor in one of the most seismically active areas on earth. I have a hard time imagining us in the US matching that engineering achievement without huge cost, debate, litigation.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#175I don't know the answers, but as someone who works in the industry (on the design side). I think a big unmentioned factor is probably liability and the prospect of litigation. If you look at old blueprints for projects in the past, they are a LOT less detailed. They had to be, because it was physically more difficult to produce them since they had to be drawn by hand. A lot was left to the contractor to figure out in…
This is correct. I wonder if anyone has tried doing "design and build" contracts where this becomes an internal cost center instead of a profit driver, and would theoretically get optimized out.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#176I don't know the answers, but as someone who works in the industry (on the design side). I think a big unmentioned factor is probably liability and the prospect of litigation. If you look at old blueprints for projects in the past, they are a LOT less detailed. They had to be, because it was physically more difficult to produce them since they had to be drawn by hand. A lot was left to the contractor to figure out in…
[deleted]
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anecdotally, having moved to Western Europe, I get the sense that this is the major factor as well. If I walk down the street and there is a group of workers excavating a road, there's a lot more of a relaxed attitude about fencing, walking underneath construction equipment, etc. After all - use your common sense - don't fall into the hole. If you do, isn't it kind of your own fault? Nobody's going to sue anybody. Ad…
And America's love affair with the automobile is a well-known abusive relationship that America will never have the courage to leave. From what I have read, Millenials are putting noteworthy pressure on this aspect of American culture. Also, I gave up my car years ago. With the magic of the internet, I work online. I mostly walk everywhere and occasionally take public transit. I think we can change this substantially…
You're free to live how you choose, but don't force others to live how you see fit.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#178I don't know the answers, but as someone who works in the industry (on the design side). I think a big unmentioned factor is probably liability and the prospect of litigation. If you look at old blueprints for projects in the past, they are a LOT less detailed. They had to be, because it was physically more difficult to produce them since they had to be drawn by hand. A lot was left to the contractor to figure out in…
A lot of contracts are design build though. One company bids to design and build the bridge. The cost overruns are back on them.
those contracts often cost more to the owner though since there is less risk for them.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#179Related to what we might label "modern" infrastructure, I just got back from a trip visiting the outskirts of Illinois. The towns there are small, but full of people hungry for opportunities and good work. Yet everywhere you go there is no work to be done. Businesses—even big box stores like Walmart or Target—are closed down. Homes lay vacant despite their reasonably cheap (at least for someone living in Silicon Vall…
I have to wonder how much of this is the result of population migrating from the Midwest to the Sun Belt.
It used to be that the Midwest exemplified "typical America". Now, that role belongs more to the Southwest, Texas, the New South, etc. Dallas and Phoenix probably represent the average, everyday American more than Chicago and Detroit do nowadays.
Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure
#180I don't know the answers, but as someone who works in the industry (on the design side). I think a big unmentioned factor is probably liability and the prospect of litigation. If you look at old blueprints for projects in the past, they are a LOT less detailed. They had to be, because it was physically more difficult to produce them since they had to be drawn by hand. A lot was left to the contractor to figure out in…
Anecdotally, having moved to Western Europe, I get the sense that this is the major factor as well. If I walk down the street and there is a group of workers excavating a road, there's a lot more of a relaxed attitude about fencing, walking underneath construction equipment, etc. After all - use your common sense - don't fall into the hole. If you do, isn't it kind of your own fault? Nobody's going to sue anybody. Ad…
> And America's love affair with the automobile is a well-known abusive relationship that America will never have the courage to leave.
It's pretty much impossible to leave this relationship unless you live in one of the larger US cities. If you live in a suburb, rural area, or city that's not in the top 10-15 in terms of size there's literally no other option that exists or that could easily exist.