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The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

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Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#81

Post by mistermann »

Frondo wrote: post #73
Kenji wrote: post #41

The solution is shrinking the state to the bare minimum and making as many transactions as possible voluntary.

I wish the Libertarians who post this solution ("shrink the state to the bare minimum") would ever actually show us where it's working in practice, to provide a decent quality of life for people. In China, they're building mad infrastructure--big state. In Europe, they're providing a good quality of life--big state. The "small state" places I can think of, none of them are places people are flocking to for an improve…

Let's be honest, there are not that many examples to choose from.

What I like about China is, it illustrates how effective a mostly benevolent dictatorship is. It is the optimal political system imho, provided it remains benevolent of course, which is no small feat.

Provided they don't trip and fall, if China is not the absolute supreme leader of the planet in 25 - 50 years I will be shocked.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#82

Post by jboggan »

noonespecial wrote: post #51

I thought about this when I visited the Hoover Dam. The audacity of the thing and sheer impossibility of doing anything remotely like it in today's America makes it seem like a relic from an ancient civilization. It felt like visiting the pyramids in Egypt.

Hypothesis: nicotine is a nootropic [0] good for say, 6 IQ points on average (Danish study I saw referenced, not linking unless I can find the original paper). The Hoover Dam and many other great infrastructure projects were created in the earlier 20th century when smoking was pervasive. Perhaps we were somewhat smarter in aggregate back then and that's why we can't engineer infrastructure at the same level anymore.

0 - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-a-nicotine-p...

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#83

Post by cmiles74 »

chadgeidel wrote: post #40

My brother and father (concrete construction) would probably lay the blame on onerous regulation. They regularly complain about nit-picky engineers with their insistence on (in their words) unreasonable slavish devotion to engineering specifications. I'm not on the jobsite so I don't actually know. I wonder is our construction regulations are much more stringent than other western nations?

I believe that they are, but that is clearly no panacea. Massachusetts is famous for having lengthy and onerous regulations and code but the Big Dig project still had many failures.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/12/29/years-later-...

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#84

Post by LoSboccacc »

bogomipz wrote: post #78

I don't know if "forgotten" as used in the title is the correct word so much as just "out of practice." Look at this list of infrastructure projects in China in the last decade or so: http://www.businessinsider.com/giant-chinese-infrastructure-... It's hard not to be impressed by that list. And China is undertaking these scale projects abroad as well from Latin America to Africa. It's should be no surprise that you g…

china is still industrializing and will be for a while yet, of course they get great roi from their infrastructure projects

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#85

Post by Bulkington »

maxxxxx wrote: post #17
erentz wrote: post #5

From my perspective infrastructure is politically driven in the US. Projects are debated for decades, over this time changes are made to placate some groups and buy the support from other groups, and create jobs for some politician, until it baloons into something that is many billions of dollars. Then it is built as a one off mega project. At this point it should be killed but this is seen as the only way to get stu…

I think the one off nature of projects is the problem. There is no coherent long term plan.

More broadly, systemically, the states still manage highway projects, for instance. The US federal government just funds them--although post-earmark programs (TIGER grants, federal freight projects legislation) have tried to address this. But, yes, there is no long-term plan because the federal funding system isn't set up that way. {Supply chain guy pet peeve; see also 'cooruption' comment below}.

A certain portmanteau describes it perfectly:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=clusterfuck

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#86

Post by ori_b »

pilom wrote: post #77
noonespecial wrote: post #51

I thought about this when I visited the Hoover Dam. The audacity of the thing and sheer impossibility of doing anything remotely like it in today's America makes it seem like a relic from an ancient civilization. It felt like visiting the pyramids in Egypt.

#1 reason we wouldn't do things like that today: 112-154 people died during construction (number depends on if you believe that carbon monoxide poisioning during construction was purposely mis-diagnosed in order for the company to skip on paying death benefits).

You say that as though dams can't be built without killing people.

They aren't gifts bestowed by the gods upon the completion of sufficient human sacrifice. Deaths and injuries are minimal with construction equipment and safety techniques.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#87

Post by vondur »

mistermann wrote: post #81
Frondo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the Libertarians who post this solution ("shrink the state to the bare minimum") would ever actually show us where it's working in practice, to provide a decent quality of life for people. In China, they're building mad infrastructure--big state. In Europe, they're providing a good quality of life--big state. The "small state" places I can think of, none of them are places people are flocking to for an improve…

Let's be honest, there are not that many examples to choose from. What I like about China is, it illustrates how effective a mostly benevolent dictatorship is. It is the optimal political system imho, provided it remains benevolent of course, which is no small feat. Provided they don't trip and fall, if China is not the absolute supreme leader of the planet in 25 - 50 years I will be shocked.

I would hardly classify China as a "benevolent" dictatorship.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#88

Post by superfx »

vmarsy wrote: post #79

> Yet France’s trains cost much less. Decades of expertise might be a reason here, France has the longest amount of (high speed rail miles / country area), and the non high-speed network is also huge. It's also possible that the monopoly of having only one, state-owned, railroad company (SNCF) let that company negotiate/choose better prices much more aggressively than if there was many companies. I don't think it was…

Funny thing is that the population of Texas is a little less than half that of France's (27 mil vs 66 mil), so the density differential isn't _that_ large, yet your point about the implausibility of 450 trains in Texas stands.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#89

Post by ori_b »

mistermann wrote: post #81
Frondo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the Libertarians who post this solution ("shrink the state to the bare minimum") would ever actually show us where it's working in practice, to provide a decent quality of life for people. In China, they're building mad infrastructure--big state. In Europe, they're providing a good quality of life--big state. The "small state" places I can think of, none of them are places people are flocking to for an improve…

Let's be honest, there are not that many examples to choose from. What I like about China is, it illustrates how effective a mostly benevolent dictatorship is. It is the optimal political system imho, provided it remains benevolent of course, which is no small feat. Provided they don't trip and fall, if China is not the absolute supreme leader of the planet in 25 - 50 years I will be shocked.

> Let's be honest, there are not that many examples to choose from.

Yes, I think that's the point. There are decent numbers of places where government has neither the ability or desire to regulate heavily. None of those places seem to have blossomed into oases of free enterprise and infrastructure construction.

Re: The US has forgotten how to do infrastructure

#90

Post by moomin »

Frondo wrote: post #73
Kenji wrote: post #41

The solution is shrinking the state to the bare minimum and making as many transactions as possible voluntary.

I wish the Libertarians who post this solution ("shrink the state to the bare minimum") would ever actually show us where it's working in practice, to provide a decent quality of life for people. In China, they're building mad infrastructure--big state. In Europe, they're providing a good quality of life--big state. The "small state" places I can think of, none of them are places people are flocking to for an improve…

Galt Automotive have just announced a huge new factory in Somalia.
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