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Why do so few people major in computer science?

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#451

Post by douche »

ma2rten wrote: post #400
lordnacho wrote: post #107

The grief factor of learning to code is on a different scale to every other major. One missing semicolon will take your whole tower down, and you realise this in the first day of practical exercises. Even if you are of the opinion that CS is math, and coding doesn't come into it, you will hit a coding wall early on. In fact, every exercise in CS has this problem. You add a new thing (eg inheritance), and it breaks. B…

There is another problem. Computer Science just doesn't sound that interesting. Say you could learn to build aircraft engines, understand how the economy works (which has a huge influence on people's lives) or learn how to make a computer print "hello world" on a terminal screen and how to efficiently store data. Most people wouldn't choose the latter. It's actually quite hard to describe what computer science is and…

The problem with pure computer science is that it isn't even that interesting to the uninitiated. Who the hell wants to grow up to balance binary trees, derive proofs around number theory, and poke and prod at heaps of linear algebra?

Or the other end of the spectrum, where you are a cube-dweller, who shuffles endlessly to Scrum meetings, does email, enter garbage into JIRA, and once in a blue moon gets to write a little code that might possibly be executed as part of some faceless, soulless enterprise monstrosity.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#452

Post by douche »

erikbye wrote: post #399
plafl wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my own experience is that I learned coding and using Linux on my free time several years before entering college, where I studied engineering, which required no little effort. Programming is hard, I'm not denying it, but so is everything else if you plan to get paid doing it.

> Programming is hard The programming people do most of is incredibly easy. Stop perpetuating the myth that programming is hard. People have changed careers to programming using week-long courses. No, they're not working on OS design, they don't contribute to the Linux kernel, but they work as programmers. Don't kid yourself people, most of you work on CRUD shit. For every systems prgorammer there's a thousand front-…

The really sad thing is, that as simple as most of the CRUD shit that we're slaving away at all day is, it is beyond the capacities of perhaps 30-40% of the populace - and I'm being generous in that estimation. You get out there in the world, and there are a lot of very, very limited people out there.

If you've got an 85 IQ and memory deficits, it's going to be a real struggle to even be productive slapping together static HTML pages.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#453

Post by jokoon »

Because there so many different things to do in CS. Knowing how to code will already give you a job, but mastering CS at a certain level is another realm of work, and CS keeps changing and evolving.

That's like working with cars, you need fewer engineers, and many mechanics and technicians.

Coding is like a spoken language. It's not so hard to write and fix code and there is already a lot of business involving just that, so my guess is that many students just learn to code and don't really do real CS.

The computing industry keeps growing and growing, so it means you need more technicians to keep up with growth, not nice degrees. Of course it's nice to have PhDs, but good luck training them. Education relies on constrained resources.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#454

Post by throwaway7645 »

xtreme wrote: post #340
throwaway7645 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for OP, but the engineering mindset usually comes from those of us who go into the program that tend to be very mathematical and logical, while being obsessed with figuring out how things work. When a group of engineers sits down at a table to eat lunch, they could spend an hour arguing about how the restaurant could be more efficient...etc. These kids are often used to independent problem solving and don…

> the reason the riemann hypothesis is important is because it is the reimann hypothesis I can see this being a joke. Entire subfields of mathematics have been built on the assumption that Riemann hypothesis is true. He probably assumed that everyone in the audience would know this, which is not unreasonable.

In 6 years I never thought of it that way! :)

Thanks! Now I feel like an idiot.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#455

Post by throwaway7645 »

lostboys67 wrote: post #448
skookumchuck wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is often a cruel and harsh mistress. If your engineering project doesn't work, there's no pretending that it does. It's the ultimate in fairness :-)

Nah that bridge that fell of its supports it was the contractors fault honest guv :-)

:)

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#456

Post by watwut »

Legion wrote: post #380
watwut wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the thing, you should not deal with that when you are just seeing for cycle for the first time. You should not be anywhere near compiler flags. The IDE is something you should start with. Text editor + compiler is the harder way. The first class should start with opening IDE and writing something really simple. Like someone mentioned logo or the old basics - if kids start in that environment they pick it up q…

Logo is great and all, but we're not talking about beginning programming for kids, we're talking about CS degrees. At some point between Logo and bachelor's degree, you run face-first into that complexity, which is the "wall" the commenter atop this thread was referring to.

Yes, but many students are basically at the logo level at that point. They struggle with basics. Then there is huge sudden jump to compiler flags which you call the "wall". But that is exactly what I call bad teaching. There is no reason for that to be the wall, all you need is not to teach them everything at the same time in lesson one. This is combined with culture which tenda to attribute easily learnable skills to "natural talent" - so students conclude "I am not that talent" and go somewhere where they think they are talent.

I mean, you can teach concepts one at a time and still be demanding and require certain speed. I am not saying it should be easy. You however should separate those concepts from each other and teach them one by one. Otherwise you just relying on them to have it "picked up" randomly which is not an expectation other majors have (like physics or math or biology).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#457

Post by throwaway7645 »

aerovistae wrote: post #408
throwaway7645 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for OP, but the engineering mindset usually comes from those of us who go into the program that tend to be very mathematical and logical, while being obsessed with figuring out how things work. When a group of engineers sits down at a table to eat lunch, they could spend an hour arguing about how the restaurant could be more efficient...etc. These kids are often used to independent problem solving and don…

> We had an economics teacher in college who was famous for asking the engineers to stand up on the first day of class and then stating that they would be excused from the finals as they would all have above a 95 and not have to take it. To be honest with you, that teacher sounds like a real tool. All that that can possibly achieve is to breed various subtle forms of animosity, either among classmates or towards engi…

No doubt about that. Really unprofessional.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#459

Post by [deleted] »

erikbye wrote: post #427
aerovistae wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, anyone who can't do CS must not be very smart, right? Basically if they don't have the same skillset as you, they're probably not too bright. Doesn't matter if they can draw near-photorealistically or pick up a new foreign language in mere months, or perhaps breed fascinating variants of plants in all manner of ways in their dorm room just off intuition; if they can't pass CS101, if their mind doesn't work their…

I'm just saying a person thought to be "very smart" should be able to do CS101, easily; and I don't think the examples you mentioned are indication of extraordinary cognitive faculties. I taught myself near photo-realistic drawing, it's a mechanical skill--craftsmanship; had I continued to invest more time in perfecting the technique I would have got to what’s considered photo-realistic. My Spanish was decent after f…

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#460

Post by pbhjpbhj »

erikbye wrote: post #392
jdietrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the gender skew amongst high-school programmers, this is almost equivalent to saying "women should not be starting a CS degree". It also further entrenches the advantages of people who come from affluent backgrounds. Given the success of some short coding bootcamps, it isn't inconceivable that novices could be brought up to speed within the first semester. We don't expect law students to have been amateur lawye…

> We don't expect law students to have been amateur lawyers in high school; it's a bonus if they have been in the debate society or have taken a personal interest in the subject, but it's not necessary. I don't see why CS should be a special case... Agreed, and when it comes to CS, programming is the easiest part. People who fail to see this are probably the ones who only know programming and no CS.

If you've applied for a CS degree and not done any programming though why (outside of financial incentive) would a Uni want you, surely it shows you've no interest in the field - that has to correlate strongly with failure. From nothing to doing bubble-sorts with something like python shouldn't be more than a couple of weekends for someone of the caliber to study CS at Uni.

Say you apply to study marine biology but have never been to the seaside then sure, you might do fine, but really I'd be wondering why you weren't taking a gap year and doing some self-directed study at a beach (hey, that sounds fun!).

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