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Why do so few people major in computer science?

danwang.co

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#441

Post by ransom1538 »

erikbye wrote: post #394
ransom1538 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I learned this in our new student orientation. "If you can't recompile a linux kernel by the time you graduate, you have learned nothing. Oh, yeah, also, we wont teach you that - it's just something you will run into. " -- Professor Norman S. Matloff

Anyone who talks about compiling the Linux kernel as a measure of difficulty or knowledge obviously knows nothing. I could teach my 9-year-old nephew how to do that.

Arrogance crystallized. Don't you have a bridge to tend to?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#442

Post by typednothing »

erikbye wrote: post #399
plafl wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my own experience is that I learned coding and using Linux on my free time several years before entering college, where I studied engineering, which required no little effort. Programming is hard, I'm not denying it, but so is everything else if you plan to get paid doing it.

> Programming is hard The programming people do most of is incredibly easy. Stop perpetuating the myth that programming is hard. People have changed careers to programming using week-long courses. No, they're not working on OS design, they don't contribute to the Linux kernel, but they work as programmers. Don't kid yourself people, most of you work on CRUD shit. For every systems prgorammer there's a thousand front-…

> There is programming that is hard, it's just that that is not the type of programming most people do, and it's becoming more and more rare.

One major difficulty in programming is maintaining consistency and stamping out ambiguity. When you throw together dozens of libraries to create a new one, the problems of inconsistency/ambiguity are as hard to solve -- or possibly even harder -- than in your own code.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#443

Post by Broken_Hippo »

erikbye wrote: post #410

Perhaps "very smart" was an incorrect assessment on your part.

Or maybe it is with your attitude.

Just because it was easy for you and hard for others doesn't mean that you are smart and they aren't, simply that they have different sorts of leanings and talents than you.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#444

Post by Retric »

scaryspooky wrote: post #264
Retric wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a short course (1 credit hour) in Java when it was new enough that there where no IDE's. IMO, limiting courses to established languages is kind of a waste.

What's your point?

On the bleeding edge your going to have to deal with things like semicolon placement by compilation. I am not saying writing code on a test by pencil and paper should be the normal approach, just using an IDE 100% of the time is hardly nessisarily.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#445

Post by douche »

rjprins wrote: post #383
azakai wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my professors actually made the opposite point: that in CS, the compiler will give you an error. You can fix it and move on to the next. While in math (he was a math prof), the paper doesn't object to your writing nonsense. If you have an error early on in your work, all the rest might be nonsense, and you only find out much later after a human grades it. tl;dr at least in CS you get immediate negative feedbac…

Indeed very often the problems people encounter are described well in the error message and/or stacktrace that is printed. But many, many people find it very hard to correctly read and understand those and it's because that is also a hard skill to learn.

People will actively refuse to read error messages[1].

I don't know how many times I've been trying to fix something with somebody, and an error dialog comes up, and they dismiss it instantly, before whatever content it might hold has a chance to flash across their retinas. Then I have to get them to do whatever it was four or five more times, before they calm the hell down and let me read what the error message is telling them.

[1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/26/designing-for-peop...

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#446

Post by pbhjpbhj »

erikbye wrote: post #391
PretzelFisch wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Cousin smart kid had to come over at midnight because he had his first java assignment outside the ide. Couldn't compile because class path was not defined right on windows. Things like that scare people or pop their confidence.

That just sounds like the professor didn't teach them about Java classpath before telling them to use a CLI; or this kid didn't read the course materials.

Doesn't the Java processor tell you in the error message that it "can't find x in classpath" or whatever?

Perhaps the lesson was "read the error message; if it doesn't help then take that as a call to produce useful errors in your own programs"?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#447

Post by lostboys67 »

jdietrich wrote: post #254
walshemj wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

novice programmers should not be starting a CS degree

Given the gender skew amongst high-school programmers, this is almost equivalent to saying "women should not be starting a CS degree". It also further entrenches the advantages of people who come from affluent backgrounds. Given the success of some short coding bootcamps, it isn't inconceivable that novices could be brought up to speed within the first semester. We don't expect law students to have been amateur lawye…

You do in countries that specialise earlier you wont get into a STEM course at a UK Uni without the relevant GCSE / A Levels.

In the UK you start to specialise at 13/14

I and I bet having a GCSE and A level in Law would help for wanabe lawyers

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#448

Post by lostboys67 »

skookumchuck wrote: post #329
throwaway7645 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing against comp Sci, but engineering is its own set of problems as you have to take a lot more advanced math classes than comp Sci, while taking all your calculus based engineering problems. Some you use techniques to convert to simple algebra problems...that end up being 2-3 pages long. All while having to learn CAD, robotics, practice circuits, design trusses, and yes, quite a few programming languages (basic,…

> It is often a cruel and harsh mistress. If your engineering project doesn't work, there's no pretending that it does. It's the ultimate in fairness :-)

Nah that bridge that fell of its supports it was the contractors fault honest guv :-)

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#449

Post by lostboys67 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #314
eternalban wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One missing semicolon will take your whole tower down That is not true. You do not put your "whole tower" back together again when you move cursor and type the missing [';']. [edit]

I guess GP was thinking of programming in punch card languages, where one incorrect hole punch could mean you'd have to redo the whole thing.

Punch cards easy try toggling in a program using the front panel switches which I have had to do a couple of times on PDP/11's

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#450

Post by lostboys67 »

lgessler wrote: post #294
simonsarris wrote: post #11

Slight note about Dan Wang picking 2005: That was the peak of CS degrees awarded because it's 4/5 years after the height of the dot-com bubble. So the upward bump in the mid-2000's is somewhat explainable as an anomaly. I think his point 1 is underrated. CS degrees are flat because aptitude is flat. You can compare CS degrees to other degrees over time at nsf.gov: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2016/nsb20161/#/report…

Re: the Wordsum test, I can't believe it is seriously used to assess IQ. If we assume that all participants know all of the words used, then maybe it would have some merit. But so many of the words used are either archaic, little-used, or culturally specific to North America that you could only reasonably expect a well-read and/or well-educated (and therefore wealthy) American person to know them.

I think you forgot class here
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