Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 303 posts

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#181

Post by lostboys67 »

glangdale wrote: post #47
glangdale wrote: post #23

This is hugely important as a lot of people see programming as a ticket into higher-end jobs and will spend as little time as individual contributors as they can. The idea that "oh, they'll get caught in the workforce" is not correct - quite often the plan in the mind of these folks is that they will try to fake their way through and be moved up into project management, technical marketing, etc. and never have their…

Here's the trajectory: Fake your way through basic CS courses. Find your way into group-work heavy projects in later years, possibly doing enough ancillary aspects of the work to be semi-useful. It will be likely that your other group members will find it easier to grin and bear it. Optionally: do a Masters or PhD. Plagiarize your work, or potentially hire someone to do it for you. Continue into the work force, focus…

Not sure that PE/CE status will help my Father commented when going for his IEEE chartered status in the UK that its not what you know but who you know.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#182

Post by lostboys67 »

chrismcb wrote: post #76
jdmichal wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a lecturer as a close friend in college. He was only a lecturer because he refused to do a dissertation to complete his doctorate. He was the best teacher in the department. So it goes. Anyway, he would get up in front of the staff meetings and say, the school is graduating students who do not know how to code. The school didn't care; they got paid. Every class of any import had team projects because "that's wh…

It isn't the University's job to teach people how to code. University isn't a vocational school. Yes, one should know how to code when they graduate. But the school is usually trying to teach the theory not the coding

I don't know why you are marked down for this

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#183

Post by intoverflow2 »

thegayngler wrote: post #124
xor1 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fortunately, these become apparent in the workplace and filter out in the first few years. "Filter out" aka get promoted to management and earn more than they ever did as developers.

Which is why I think developers should be paid the same as managers. People actually building/creating/maintaining the product/service are at least as useful as people managers.

Try selling that to management

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#184

Post by lostboys67 »

salesguy222 wrote: post #153
humanrebar wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A fake doctor or accountant is a scandal. A fake programmer is business as usual. I generally agree with your points, but people don't die or go to jail because of bad code. With a few exceptions. And in those exceptions there are additional checks (checklists upon checklists, rigorous testing gauntlets) to prevent buggy code from causing safety issues. Technically underqualified people typically result in missed d…

As a foil to your claim that people don't die from bad code: In 1999, when the US was engaging in a bombing campaign in Serbia against "military targets" that were staffed by civilians, the US bombed the Chinese Embassy, killing several and injuring dozens of civilians. The US later "apologizied" by saying "sorry, we programmed the coordinates improperly." Now, I'm not sure if that means some CIA intern college kid t…

One of the problems with GPS designators was when you changed batteries it reset to your current location which has lead to more than one blue on blue

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#185

Post by lostboys67 »

NickGerleman wrote: post #26

I've been a TA for a couple CS classes at Iowa State University. Cheating here at least is pretty rampant. I would guess 1/3 or more of the students cheat in some capacity. Some of it is really easy to detect too. For a first semester freshman class, I tried using MinHash to cluster student submissions together. Maybe 10% of the assignment have near duplicate pieces of code. More comprehensive methods like MOSS (Meas…

So make a very public example of one student :-)

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#186

Post by varjag »

coralreef wrote: post #69
Buge wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you weed out a large percent due to low GPA, then you've saved time interviewing those people.

You would also weed out a lot of fantastic talent, who aren't motivated by school or didn't go to school. In programming, this is a significant amount of people.

Ugh, plenty of people are not motivated by school, but manage to pass it with decent grades. I'd personally stay away from "talent" who can work just on the assignments they have genuine deep interest in.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#187

Post by achievingApathy »

goodroot wrote: post #65
Buge wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the work sample done in person or take home? If it's take home, then they can just cheat on that by hiring someone else to do it.

At Compose (YC, S11) we had a two part hiring method. The first was a blind work-sample. You had unlimited time to complete it. Identifying information was obfuscated and graders would yes/no objective criteria. The best samples proceeded to the "work day". During the work day, you'd join is in Slack for 8 hours. You'd need to ask probing questions to mock-up our infrastructure and pitch a feature based on "how we wo…

Just out of curiosity, how many people applied vs. made it through the blind work-sample vs. the work day? I think this is a great system, but I'm not sure I could keep a team of engineers actively engaged in answering infrastructure questions while at the same time trying to get their own work done. Was that an issue?

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#188

Post by lostboys67 »

coralreef wrote: post #31
johnfn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of applicants do they offer interviews to? How do you think they whittle that number down?

I've never seen "GPA" as a requirement on an application before. Listing your GPA on your CV might help if its a good one, but I haven't seen data to support that.

Isn't most of the GPA not at all related to CS or STEM I am not sure learning how to do an essay on Thucydides or what have you - will help.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#189

Post by throw2016 »

This happens in every profession. Some people are lazy, some are shirkers, some thrive on politics, some cheat, some steal credit.

As history shows us looking for shortcuts is a perennial human issue that affects a section of any population.

You are unlikely to be a doctor without going through an intensive educational curriculum and exams over a period of time. You will probably have an idea of what it entails, but laziness or other factors could motivate looking for shortcuts. It would be the same for software or any other field but the level of scrutiny and rigour would vary.

The education system, the interviews, and constant oversight by managers are designed to weed out these issues. No individual employee escapes managerial oversight in the real world so this is an organization problem that gets solved at that level and should ideally not be a concern or worse an excuse for a witch hunt by other employees.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#190

Post by lostboys67 »

stale2002 wrote: post #137
chrisper wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As long as it wasn't an actual violation of the law But it is a violation of Academic Integrity, which is sort of a law you agreed to when signing up for a class. At least at my school it was like that.

He is saying that we should get rid of the law of Academic Integrity, and make classes more like the real world. It is an interesting idea, the problem being that in the real world, while you can kinda look up the answer, it is rare to find someone who is doing the exact same thing as what you need to do, for thousands of lines of code. Maybe college would better simulate the real world if you gave students personali…

with my IR hat on In the real world "bringing the company into disrepute" is gross misconduct and normally an immediate firing offence.
Post reply on HN