Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chrome Won

andreasgal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 583 posts

Re: Chrome Won

#521

Post by creatonez »

drdaeman wrote: post #319
baby wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that Firefox also has Tree Style Tabs, which for power users is the good reason not to use Chrome and use Firefox instead.

Better say "had". They'll disappear in some months, unless you stick with ESR (which has expiry date, AFAIK in 2018Q2)

Have you seen Mozilla's "test pilot" collection of addons? They're experimenting with adding vertical tabs into Firefox: https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/tab-center/

It seems Mozilla is very much aware of what will disappear when WebExtensions becomes the only extension API, and what will need to happen to replace it.

Re: Chrome Won

#522

Post by beerbaron23 »

nojvek wrote: post #441
ekianjo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Tolkien quote.

Well its not the same boss again. Sure Chrome has a massive market share. But even Today's MS Edge is not open. I used to work for the Edge team and the directors never really gave Open Source a serious thought. It was too tied to windows. I am glad Edge doesn't have the market share that Chrome has. Chrome works on every platform. It hogs memory but its fast. Chromium & v8 are open. This is the kind of things that g…

But they are tracking and spying on their users and using strong arming tactics to keep the "Chrome" branding. Firefox has been faster and uses less resources for a good while now and Opera is at least offering Mobile mode to say power while on battery (Even though it's powered by the Blink engine).

An what Chrome is giving out is "Tier1" search results only fed to their browser (Thus search results are more accurate using Chrome.... and now Google Earth is "Chrome Only" which uses WebGL and the latest tests show Firefox is still over 3x as fast with WebGL content then Chrome.

Electron is HORRIBLE, enabling people to write apps in Javascript while using all your PC"s resources is insane. "Etcher" a program written in electron who's sole purpose is simply an "ISO USB Writer" comes with a payload of 180mb's on disk and over 200MB's of RAM and runs like an old dog with cancer... along with the other electron apps. This could have been written with something we had for decades with little overhead and small payload, it's called Python...

Re: Chrome Won

#523

Post by beerbaron23 »

nialv7 wrote: post #291
MBCook wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is we're moving extremely fast to a chrome only world. If it wasn't for corporate sites and the success of the iPhone chrome would probably be dominating the way IE used to. I definitely run into sites that only work on chrome and not in any other browser. In my opinion chrome isn't doing a good job either. It's a massive energy hog and waste more CPU than it needs to. Unlike IE and FireFox and Safari it…

To be honest, all browsers currently on market are energy hogs and use massive amount of memory. God I miss the old Opera....

If saving battery life is your goal then run Safari, nothing can touch it. Although Opera does now have a mobile energy saving mode you should check out.

Re: Chrome Won

#524

Post by beerbaron23 »

kuntau wrote: post #502
true_tuna wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to Opera recently. Got sick of finding Chrome hogging insane amounts of resources. I'm quite happy with it (built in VPN and Adblock!) I don't feel like anyone is trying to force me back to Chrome. Choice and competition are key. Chrome and Firefox did great things, but never forget that competition is the real hero.

I don't know if you're serious or not. But current Opera engine is the same as Chrome; Blink.

Same engine but it is tweaked heavily to run lighter and they have a nice power saving mode as well.

Watch out for Opera's add block, it works through a proxy to compress data, thus they know your every move online too...

Re: Chrome Won

#525

Post by rabimba »

qznc wrote: post #240
diminish wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla lost the mobile OS war unfortunately if that what's inspiring you. What's next isn't clear to me

The Mobile OS war can still be continued. Mozilla should join forces with Lineage OS instead of wasting time with their own. Do the embrace, extend, extinguish strategy with Android. Secure messaging is also still a hot topic. Join forces with Signal or Wire or Matrix or XMPP. For example, Wire intends to open source their server code and enable federation [0]. Voice control requires some weight for an Open Source so…

You should definitely have a look at Mozilla's DeepSpeach https://github.com/mozilla/DeepSpeech/blob/master/README.md

Re: Chrome Won

#526

Post by vatotemking »

pcwalton wrote: post #405
vatotemking wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned these features as selling points but at the current state of things parallel styling/layout are buggy. Servo is buggy. And its not 100% proven better (emphasis on "experimental") than current tech. Chrome may not have these on the roadmap but its stable. The styling and layout algorithms are battle tested. Servo is a nice goal and a technological feat but its a big business risk for Mozilla without clea…

I'd be more than willing to hear your technical thoughts as to why the features I mentioned are not "100% proven better" than the status quo. From my point of view, having measured this stuff over and over again for years, it's undeniable that they result in wins. The remaining bugs are features at the margins and will not affect the overall results. You seem confident, so I'm sure you have specific technical reasons…

> Doing nothing is an even bigger risk.

True. But Mozilla is betting on servo which I see as a big question mark as well. Are you sure that people will download firefox over chrome when servo lands? How long before it will finally ship? 1, 2 years? Was there a market research before hand? Like I said its a big question mark. Cant blame me if I have doubts after Firefox OS.

> I don't understand why "you shouldn't even try to improve" is such a popular sentiment on HN, of all places. What possible benefit can complacency bring? Why advocate it?

I dont know and I dont have something to do with it. Personally, I think the popular opinion on HN is pro Rust and pro Servo.

> I'd be more than willing to hear your technical thoughts...

Wait, are you using the "if you cant talk technical GTFO" card on me? We are straying from my original comment.

To make this perfectly clear:

Im not against improvement. Im against Mozilla's poor business decisions. You can see that was my point in the original comment.

No im not downplaying all your hard work. But ive seen this happen before. Happened to me as well. "Oh this will be great when it ships" at the expense of the company. Im trying to give an alternative opinion here contrary to the constant positive reinforcement when Rust and Servo is posted on HN. Nothing personal.

Re: Chrome Won

#527

Post by woranl »

flukus wrote: post #227
woranl wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sandboxed. I would love to see Firefox to succeed. That would be good for the web. But Firefox cannot succeed if Mozilla is unwilling to innovate. Stuff like this is why Firefox is falling behind. Stuff like this is what differentiated Chrome. Without Chrome and Google's push on the technical boundaries of the browser, many HTML5 features wouldn't exist. I, like many, don't want to stay in the web Stone Age.

If you want innovation then take a look at reader mode. That's done more to improve my browsing experience than any HTML5 features ever will.

Nowadays, browser is not just to render a page. The web itself is a platform. Try turn off javascript, and you'll see what I mean.

Mozilla is failing because they are being arrogant and don't listen to developers. It's not just on desktop, but also on mobile. At first, they refused to make a browser on iOS because they have to use "WebKit". Well guess what.. they missed the bus. After realizing it, they caved. But it's already too late.

Re: Chrome Won

#528

Post by [deleted] »

bokan wrote: post #512
pcwalton wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more than willing to hear your technical thoughts as to why the features I mentioned are not "100% proven better" than the status quo. From my point of view, having measured this stuff over and over again for years, it's undeniable that they result in wins. The remaining bugs are features at the margins and will not affect the overall results. You seem confident, so I'm sure you have specific technical reasons…

The question isn't whether you should or shouldn't try to improve, it's where to invest your resources. Servo improves the speed of layout, style, etc. but is that really what's making the web experience slow? If you do some performance tracing, you'll see your browser already spends a paltry amount of time doing those things. It's spending most of its time running ridiculous amounts of JS that's being pulled in from…

[deleted]

Re: Chrome Won

#529

Post by vatotemking »

bokan wrote: post #512
pcwalton wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more than willing to hear your technical thoughts as to why the features I mentioned are not "100% proven better" than the status quo. From my point of view, having measured this stuff over and over again for years, it's undeniable that they result in wins. The remaining bugs are features at the margins and will not affect the overall results. You seem confident, so I'm sure you have specific technical reasons…

The question isn't whether you should or shouldn't try to improve, it's where to invest your resources. Servo improves the speed of layout, style, etc. but is that really what's making the web experience slow? If you do some performance tracing, you'll see your browser already spends a paltry amount of time doing those things. It's spending most of its time running ridiculous amounts of JS that's being pulled in from…

I dunno why you are downvoted for such a valid comment. Exactly my point.

Re: Chrome Won

#530

Post by yuhong »

_jal wrote: post #387
MBCook wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see telemetry as fundamentally different from the kind of data that you want to use to push advertising to people.

There is no clear line to be drawn between the two, and it really depends on the use to which the data is put, something that's opaque to end users. Sure, error reporting feeding in to a QA database is one thing. But is there the capability to target Win10 OS ads to, say, folks with old video cards? I'd be very surprised if someone in Redmond didn't think of that.

That being said, I do believe that currently SQM is separate from ad tracking and crash reporting for example.
Post reply on HN