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Chrome Won

andreasgal.com

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Re: Chrome Won

#401

Post by mercer »

dEnigma wrote: post #321
krzyk wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome handles few tabs better, Firefox handles hundreds of tabs better.

This ultimately was what made me switch back to Firefox after I had used Chrome for a couple of years. I regularly have several hundred tabs opened in my browser, and Chrome was completely unusable in that situation, at least back then.

For those who still use Chrome and load lots of tabs: OneTab and The Great Suspender have been life-savers for me (in the trivial scheme of things).

So has cVim, but that has no relation to any of this.

Re: Chrome Won

#402

Post by dhimes »

mercer wrote: post #393
vacri wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is not that Firefox has issues, but that it's a small enough market share now that more and more web services can get away with not bothering to test on it.

I hate how, as a web developer, I've probably been part of the problem. My workflow has somehow ended up being 'do everything in chrome and only at the end test if it all works in firefox and safari'. More than once I forgot that step and ended up making small fixes for Safari on request, but not Firefox because nobody reported issues. Once I became aware of this, I've been trying to be more diligent about thoroughly…

FWIW, I'm exactly the opposite. I dev on firefox, only bother with chrome at the last minute (although I'll check it's responsive mode a little earlier) and get somebody else to check safari.

Re: Chrome Won

#403

Post by dfox »

JoshMnem wrote: post #164

Firefox took marketshare from IE when that was impossible. It could do it again with Chrome, if things change a bit. Some problems with Mozilla are that they don't do community management well any more. In the old days, there were amazing grassroots-driven projects like spreadfirefox.com. It is not like that any more. Grassroots supporters have trouble participating, even if they try. For example, I tried to create a…

IMO Mozilla had started allienating core users the moment Firefox reached 1.0 and became Mozilla's flagship product. The browser component of Mozilla Suite had useful features that were simply dropped from Firefox. (Also around this time Mozilla started the Mozilla(R) Firefox(TM) nonsense which led to Debian's Iceweasel and such. I remember that there was some kind of legal issue with having Firefox logo on cake and banner for FF 1.0 release party in Prague, which fortunately got ignored)

For me, firefox became completely unusable few months ago when somebody decided that pulseaudio is the way to go and nothing else should be supported.

Re: Chrome Won

#404

Post by [deleted] »

dmh2000 wrote: post #374

I understand why Google gives Chrome for free, to bring people into their sphere of influence. But what does Mozilla get for giving out Firefox? Is it monetized somehow? Or is it just to win an imaginary distinction.

[deleted]

Re: Chrome Won

#405

Post by pcwalton »

vatotemking wrote: post #367
pcwalton wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Servo is an "experimental" browser engine. While Chromium is cranking out features, servo is yet to reach version 1.0. This would be a more convincing point if any of memory safety, parallel styling, parallel layout, retained mode rendering as suggested by the GPU vendors, and so forth were on Chromium's roadmap.

You mentioned these features as selling points but at the current state of things parallel styling/layout are buggy. Servo is buggy. And its not 100% proven better (emphasis on "experimental") than current tech. Chrome may not have these on the roadmap but its stable. The styling and layout algorithms are battle tested. Servo is a nice goal and a technological feat but its a big business risk for Mozilla without clea…

I'd be more than willing to hear your technical thoughts as to why the features I mentioned are not "100% proven better" than the status quo. From my point of view, having measured this stuff over and over again for years, it's undeniable that they result in wins. The remaining bugs are features at the margins and will not affect the overall results. You seem confident, so I'm sure you have specific technical reasons, right?

> Servo is a nice goal and a technological feat but its a big business risk for Mozilla without clear return of value.

Doing nothing is an even bigger risk.

I don't understand why "you shouldn't even try to improve" is such a popular sentiment on HN, of all places. What possible benefit can complacency bring? Why advocate it?

Re: Chrome Won

#406

Post by Jach »

mercer wrote: post #393
vacri wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is not that Firefox has issues, but that it's a small enough market share now that more and more web services can get away with not bothering to test on it.

I hate how, as a web developer, I've probably been part of the problem. My workflow has somehow ended up being 'do everything in chrome and only at the end test if it all works in firefox and safari'. More than once I forgot that step and ended up making small fixes for Safari on request, but not Firefox because nobody reported issues. Once I became aware of this, I've been trying to be more diligent about thoroughly…

I generally like Chrome dev tools better, but Firefox (and Firebug, RIP) has some unique tricks, in practice I use both at times. But I agree a lot of people take your approach of Chrome as default, Firefox/other for testing, and that's part of the problem. (If you haven't heard of Selenium+SauceLabs, they can help with your automated testing of multiple browsers.)

I still use Firefox as default, both for developing and for general web browsing. It and my set of extensions fit my preferences too nicely and have no equivalent in Chrome. I use Chrome at work primarily for Google Hangouts / Meet, the occasional debug session, or just to have another session. (Trying to get into Chrome's Profiles feature too.) At home I just use Chromium from time to time, mostly because my computer is starting to age and I notice the performance difference for certain things.

Re: Chrome Won

#407

Post by wordupmaking »

mercer wrote: post #393
vacri wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is not that Firefox has issues, but that it's a small enough market share now that more and more web services can get away with not bothering to test on it.

I hate how, as a web developer, I've probably been part of the problem. My workflow has somehow ended up being 'do everything in chrome and only at the end test if it all works in firefox and safari'. More than once I forgot that step and ended up making small fixes for Safari on request, but not Firefox because nobody reported issues. Once I became aware of this, I've been trying to be more diligent about thoroughly…

Why not switch to developing in Firefox, like, now? As long as the debug tools are usable, why throw out the baby with the bath water for getting a tiny bit more a tiny bit sooner? Let's have some love for our future selves..

Re: Chrome Won

#410

Post by ryanmarsh »

I'm not so worried about a near browser monoculture if Chrome is the dominant browser.

With IE Microsoft was originally driven to use the web to maintain Windows lock in, to control the platform.

Google (I would assume) is driven by the desire to keep the web as desireable a development platform overall. Web usage means ad sales. Google has knocked it out of the park on this one. Chrome really is an incredible piece of software.

IE by comparison has always been a piece of shit because it never mattered. Microsoft was leveraging it for OS adoption not a successful web.

Today it's the web vs. apps and who knows what it will be in the future. This may sound crazy to some but the web will become a "truck" to some other technology's "car". Sort of how desktop office productivity apps are a monoculture and no one really cares.

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