Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New Surface Pro

microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 606 posts

Re: New Surface Pro

#371

Post by ovao »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #365
ovao wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple chooses to act against it's own customers' interests by rushing to new ports and requiring they buy all new hardware. I just moved to a 2016 MacBook Pro and the only "all new hardware" I've purchased is a pair of $10 adapters. I haven't replaced any of the hardware I already own, because I don't need to. I can only really criticize Apple for not including an adapter or two, and for not including more than two…

Similar to your MacBook, you will be able to get adapters for the Surface Pro for your USB-C needs! They included the ports people use the most, and will support adapters for those of you who need less popular ports.

That's certainly true. Apple included the ports that people will use the most, at some point in what they believe to be the justifiably near future (we'll see!), and they naturally support adapters for those who need what are currently the more popular ports.

So with the Surface Pro you're probably buying adapters one to two years from now, whereas with the MacBook you're probably buying those adapters today. Whether adapters are bought now or two years from now I don't think is that great of a concern.

Re: New Surface Pro

#372

Post by ChuckMcM »

sixdimensional wrote: post #339

One trend I am noticing is that I keep sensing a clear difference between, say, a standard iPad vs. a Surface. A standard iPad feels like a tablet appliance, whereas a Surface is a full-bore laptop in tablet form. Mentally, whenever I hold a Surface, I don't find myself thinking of the kind of experience I expect from the iPad. I realize now there is the iPad Pro, which has more horsepower/keyboard/pen etc., but it s…

I think you are just channeling the tensions that exist in the market. And that is to be expected.

It is really fascinating to look at laptop and tablet and phone evolution from a distance.

Computers became "personal", and then "luggable", and then "portable", and then "laptop", and then "handheld", and then "phones." As they walked that transition computers were getting more and more powerful, but they were still shedding features as the evolved.

And then at the 'phone' endpoint of evolution they sort of 'bounced backward'. The key to that bounce was screens. First they got to be higher resolution, and then they got to be bigger (clearly testing what was more desirable). And as boundaries along size have started to settle out they have been getting back peripherals (pens, styli, and keyboards).

I feel like the current hardware has re-affirmed a couple of truths. One is that keyboards remain an accelerator for input much like bicycles accelerate walking. Very difficult to improve upon. Styli only make sense if they are at least as good as the instruments most people use and that measure of 'goodness' is sensitivity and lag. The last is that command entry is often gesture based, and while you can do it with keyboards or styli there is a certain "grace" associated with turning the page by flicking your finger rather than pressing the 'down arrow' key or the 'next' button.

The tension is that all of them, the laptop, the tablet, the phone are the "same" thing but tuned in slightly different ways.

Re: New Surface Pro

#373

Post by ocdtrekkie »

marricks wrote: post #368
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to your MacBook, you will be able to get adapters for the Surface Pro for your USB-C needs! They included the ports people use the most, and will support adapters for those of you who need less popular ports.

AKA, we don't care about the future, cater to what people want now. I guarantee most people would be thrilled with one cable for everything, making a step towards that halfway through 2017 seems reasonable...

I am willing to bet you're still going to see USB 2.0 ports on desktop PCs in 2025. (Most come with at least a pair of non-3.0 ports today.) Some computers still ship with DB9 and DB25 ports today. VGA is still one of the most common video ports, and a lot of brand new PCs and monitors come with them to ensure people have compatibility with whatever PCs and monitors they already own.

USB Type-C is nice in theory, but even if you assume they get all the compatibility issues with it worked out, we're gonna be using USB Type-A for many years to come. Type-C only accessories being common is a really long way away, and you'll have replaced your Surface Pro by then.

This is an excellent explanation of USB Type-C: https://xkcd.com/927/ (That isn't to say that USB Type-C is bad, but pretending we're all moving over to it in 2017 is silly.)

Re: New Surface Pro

#374

Post by dilap »

paulcole wrote: post #137
dilap wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, that's crazy customer unfriendly.

Eh, is it really? How many customers does this really affect? If you're from a European country and buying in the US, odds are you're trying to avoid VAT.

ah yes, let's assume the customer was just trying to dodge taxes, even better!

it's crazy, even if common, to treat your customers like shit.

it's not MS's problem of people are dodging taxes, and it should be (if they want customers) their aim to help their customers.

Re: New Surface Pro

#375

Post by e12e »

trendia wrote: post #80

Any Linux support? I'll buy Microsoft hardware if I can keep my full development environment (Qt creator included)

I only have the sp4, and apparently Linux support is getting there. On my first attempt (almost a year ago) there were a number of issues - but now a recent distro/kernel should work out of the box (on the sp4).

But I haven't gotten around to trying yet, as with the Linux subsystem and hyper-v - I have enough Linux for my current needs.

I do plan to try and move to Linux (again) now - for better window management and better package management (scoop.sh and chocolatey notwithstanding) - and because I strongly believe in FOSS.

Re: New Surface Pro

#376

Post by melling »

ashark wrote: post #281
melling wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you telling me what people have in 2017? No one is saying that USB-C is the standard now. Although in thin laptops it will be the standard this year. I'll be using my "legacy" USB stuff until it dies too. The point is that market is starting to adopt USB-C, and everyone should be ready for the transition. I want a future port on my new computers, which will have a 5-10 year lifespan. USB-A would be nice too,…

Because the question was: > What connector do you think you'll need in two years, five years, 10 years? And my answers were USB-A, both, and USB-C (but probably also whatever replaces it), respectively. Your response to my answer was to tell me that lots of host devices are shipping with USB-C, which has no effect whatsoever on my answer (which I expect is typical, even of people on HN). I thought you must not unders…

No, the question is "why is it important that the Surface, or other laptop, ship with a USB-C port today. Asking 2, 5, and 10 was to illustrate that over most of the life of the Surface, USB-C will be preferred.

A $2000 device should have the new port.

Re: New Surface Pro

#377

Post by fuzzybeard »

atroll wrote: post #88

Am I poor or is this thing crazy expensive ?

I'm an IT professional and this is a work machine for me. Looking at it that way, for what it does, it's worth every penny.

For a casual home user? No, I would never recommend a Surface Pro.

Re: New Surface Pro

#378

Post by marricks »

ovao wrote: post #371
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to your MacBook, you will be able to get adapters for the Surface Pro for your USB-C needs! They included the ports people use the most, and will support adapters for those of you who need less popular ports.

That's certainly true. Apple included the ports that people will use the most, at some point in what they believe to be the justifiably near future (we'll see!), and they naturally support adapters for those who need what are currently the more popular ports. So with the Surface Pro you're probably buying adapters one to two years from now, whereas with the MacBook you're probably buying those adapters today. Whether…

That’s so short sighted. Sure, if we stick with what everyone uses now everyone will be supported. They only way to move towards those greener pastures is to have companies actually support them.


MS hasn’t supported the port, and is intentionally taking a swipe at Apple “people who love USB-C love dongles.” To me implies they know what they’re dong and are trying to reap the benefits of the inevitable awkwardness of transitions.

Re: New Surface Pro

#379

Post by j45 »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #264
j45 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told to check out Asus

My current laptop is an ASUS ROG but I'm waiting to see who else is competing, I kinda want hardware that'd be most likely to have better Linux support.

Haha, you literally stole the thought out of my mind when I had hit send - Asus has some great value/performance, but I wasn't sure of the Linux support.

I have a good friend who runs linux natively (I use a VM) and is raving about the new Lenovo Carbon X1 as well.

Re: New Surface Pro

#380

Post by e12e »

rtkwe wrote: post #123
staticelf wrote: post #24

I have a SP4 and I really, really like it. But this doesn't seem to differ that much from it. Does it? :) What's new compared to SP4?

50% more battery life than the 4, fanless options for the m3 and i5 versions, on screen support for the surface dial, and a new hinge that lays a little flatter seem like the big changes. It's largely an incremental improvement.

More battery is a big one - I love my sp4, but I think (even with the improvements with the pro) they should have added a few 100 grams for more battery.

Fanless i5 would be nice - my sp4 i5 isn't loud, but quiet would be better.

Was hoping the new sp would be waterproof though (it's the only remaining "obvious" improvement I see. We'll that and enough gpu power to drive vr - but I suppose we're still a few years from that in a small, light, quiet battery-powered device).

Post reply on HN