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Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

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Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#61

Post by wiredfool »

petre wrote: post #56
subterfudge44 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are worried that people would stop flying if they knew. And that describes what the whole TSA thing is about. It is a theatre. There was no need to put laptop ban either because it is just as useless. One has to only check Quora answers on all sort of things people have taken through security which includes 2 full size Katana Swords, loaded guns, Fire starters, Ethanol bottles and various other items. I unders…

Nitrocellulose? One could turn a troller full of cotton underwear into a bomb. So are they going to ban underwear on flights next?

They already swab for nitrates. It can trigger a false positive if you've been around an application of fertilizer.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#62

Post by jetti »

leggomylibro wrote: post #7

>So why was the stolen x-ray equipment kept a secret? I asked my source if there was some security reason for keeping the stolen x-ray equipment from the public, and was told, unequivocally, no. “It’s because the mom from the midwest planning to fly her kids to Disney would freak out. They are worried that people would stop flying if they knew.” Kind of ironic, because I've already stopped flying - not because I'm af…

"If I absolutely must travel, I take a train or drive. "

The problem with train is it is expensive and time consuming in the States. I could take a train from Chicago to Orlando and it would take around 30 hours and cost just as much, if not more, than a plane ticket. Not only that, the 19 hour second leg of the ride has no food car.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#64

Post by skissane »

coredog64 wrote: post #51
jaclaz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, but that applies (maybe) to the US. What about any other country, for the sake of the example, Wherevereristan ? Do they have the same rules?

If you fly into the US, it is more than likely that not only will you have to clear airport security provided by the host country, you will also have to go through security provided by the US. It will be US equipment and US citizens operating it. So in that sense, if Whereveristan wants to sell the airport X-ray equipment they can get, it isn't going to be useful in determining what can pass US screening.

> If you fly into the US, it is more than likely that not only will you have to clear airport security provided by the host country, you will also have to go through security provided by the US. It will be US equipment and US citizens operating it.

How common is such an arrangement? I've only ever flown to the US from Australia, and while there was a pre-boarding security check at the gate, after the main security screening at the entrance to the airside of the terminal, the staff carrying it out appear to be Australian private security guards, not US citizens. (I haven't done it for about two years now, so someone who has done it more recently would have to tell me if anything has changed.)

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#65

Post by leggomylibro »

jetti wrote: post #62
leggomylibro wrote: post #7

>So why was the stolen x-ray equipment kept a secret? I asked my source if there was some security reason for keeping the stolen x-ray equipment from the public, and was told, unequivocally, no. “It’s because the mom from the midwest planning to fly her kids to Disney would freak out. They are worried that people would stop flying if they knew.” Kind of ironic, because I've already stopped flying - not because I'm af…

"If I absolutely must travel, I take a train or drive. " The problem with train is it is expensive and time consuming in the States. I could take a train from Chicago to Orlando and it would take around 30 hours and cost just as much, if not more, than a plane ticket. Not only that, the 19 hour second leg of the ride has no food car.

It is definitely not a saving on cost or time, but I don't have to travel too much and the vastly improved experience is worthwhile for me, especially within a 2-3 state radius. Amtrak tickets will rival a plane in cost while taking longer, but they tend to be less crowded. They often have designated quiet cars. There's far less invasive security theater. The seats are comfortable. It's an environment that I can actually relax or work in, unlike a plane, which I find makes up for the extra time.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#66

Post by squarefoot »

Everyone seem to have missed the opportunity here to push for standard power connector/polarity/voltage/maxcurrent requirement for all laptops while fitting a power cable (with short circuit protection in every seat. That will also discourage from producing laptops not working if a battery isn't plugged in. Having say a 12VDC/3A plug in every seat will force most manufacturers to make at least one airline-friendly laptop, and/or implement on faster models things such as turning off cores and keeping CPU speed low to stay within that current limit.

edit- and push to get a standard for battery pack sizes to reduce the number of form factors, then implement a service where you give your used one at departure and get a new one at arrival.

Regulations like that one stink badly, but necessities drive progress and I see an opportunity here.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#67

Post by leggomylibro »

Animats wrote: post #20
finid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a stateroom on a cargo ship sounds like it would be fun. Something to try one of these days.

No longer available. Considered a hijacking risk.

They're offered as 'cruises' these days; you'd be looking at rates of ~$100-150/day, and they do single-day port calls wherever the ships' routes make a call. It looks like you do have to book fairly far in advance, though.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#68

Post by valuearb »

Animats wrote: post #32

The secrecy issue has gotten out of hand. The classic military view of secrecy is time-limited. "Where the ship was last week is unclassified. Where the ship was yesterday is confidential. Where the ship is now is secret. Where the ship will be tomorrow is top secret." The opposition will eventually find out what you're planning on doing. The goal is for them to find out the hard way, when incoming fire starts hittin…

There is no political benefit to open-ness. If the information is used to kill your country's citizens, the politicians who allowed it's release will have their careers ended. It doesn't matter that you have a right to know, or that incidents will happen regardless, or that flying would still be safer than 40 years ago if a dozen planes blew up.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#69

Post by zkms »

Read this paper as well https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit... -- the researchers who wrote it obtained (on the surplus market) the same model of backscatter X-ray body scanner that was deployed in US airports and proceeded to evaluate and validate various schemes for undetectable concealment of firearms, knives, and explosives. Other research was done, including a software implant that would selectively strip indications of contraband from the image (when a specific signal pattern was in the image), and a firmware implant that would disable all interlocks and deliver an elevated radiation dose. If it is possible for a few university researchers to obtain this sort of security scanner without resorting to crimes, it is folly to assume that actual adversaries cannot.

We need better methods for detecting energetic materials (and not just suspicious shapes) in luggage (detecting it concealed inside humans is harder and would require transmission x-ray which is not currently acceptable for airport security screening) that don't crumble when the adversary has unlimited access to the security scanner to test concealment methods.

Concealing knives is kinda easier than concealing energetic materials -- it is, for example, possible to machine a blade that fits perfectly inside a blunt, innocuous "sheath" so precisely (hi, wire EDM) that they appear as a single piece of metal. However, this is not so much of an issue nowadays, as no amount of threatening or stabbing with a knife will make a pilot open the cockpit door.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#70

Post by valuearb »

_0w8t wrote: post #10

As lithium batteries are opaque to X-Rays, perhaps a ban on laptops with batteries should be considered. This will surely push for standard swappable batteries and standard power supplies so the laptops could be used on board without batteries.

Yes, we should ban lithium batteries because to make flying more inconvenient even though it is safer than it's ever been.

Everyone can go around with battery-less laptops so they can't use them in the few planes that get retrofit, and no other place without plugs.

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