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Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

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Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#11

Post by tsaoutourpants »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #9

Q for the author: how valuable would an actual proprietary airport X-ray be, in terms of designing devices (as compared to another X-ray of similar spec)? Does having access to the actual X-ray for purposes of product testing really make that much of a difference to a technically gifted bomb-maker?

Yes. See my comment below to djmdjm, but also, I'll add one more thing. Take a knife out of your kitchen drawer and hold it in your hand in front of you such that the sharp side of the blade is on the left and the dull side is on the right. Easy to see. Now rotate it 90 degrees such that the sharp side is facing you and the dull side is facing away. Much harder to see, especially if you can imagine what it would look like on an x-ray, and how you could further conceal it by carefully placing other items between the "camera" and the item.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#12

Post by rst »

djmdjm wrote: post #6

The premise is flawed. X-ray inspection equipment is easy to find - it's regularly offered for sale on EBay and you'll find a number of teardown videos of various models on Youtube. The stolen X-Ray equipment is not being reported probably because it isn't particularly interesting.

You could say the same about the toner cartridge ban cited in the article (and the article itself does!) -- but DHS did it anyway.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#13

Post by tsaoutourpants »

_0w8t wrote: post #10

As lithium batteries are opaque to X-Rays, perhaps a ban on laptops with batteries should be considered. This will surely push for standard swappable batteries and standard power supplies so the laptops could be used on board without batteries.

What? No, that's a wholly unnecessary solution (though more standardization of batteries would certainly be nice). Swab the outside of the laptop for bomb residue, which would be especially difficult to clean from a laptop because the stronger solvents to clean with (like acetone) would mark the plastic. Or hire more dogs. Or make a "puffer machine" for laptops (blasts with air and then samples the air for explosive trace). Or come up with another solution -- this is HN! :)

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#14

Post by jaclaz »

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #2

Hi All, author of the article here. Happy to answer any questions you may have about the laptop ban, aviation security, TSA assholery, Trump's travel-related civil rights abuses (incl. the "Muslim ban"), or other such topics of interest. And, thanks for the support... HN is always one of the first communities to upvote my work and help me share it with the world. As a computer scientist turned almost-lawyer, I defini…

While it is perfectly possible that a scanning device disappeared somewhere, it is not the only way someone can study how to conceal hidden explosive in luggage.

I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours?

Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these devices?

Does the same happen for all designers of these devices?

Or if you prefer, do you believe that such a scanning machine cannot be re-built from commercial parts by someone who knows their innards?

Are ALL purchases of new scanners subject to governemnet approval (and even if yes, which government)?

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#15

Post by wwwv »

_0w8t wrote: post #10

As lithium batteries are opaque to X-Rays, perhaps a ban on laptops with batteries should be considered. This will surely push for standard swappable batteries and standard power supplies so the laptops could be used on board without batteries.

They are not opaque to X-Rays, much less the ludicrous penetrating power used in baggage inspection. Baggage X-rays can happily penetrate inches of metal, nothing short of lead brick will obscure contents and that's going to raise other questions. Where did you get that nonsense from?

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#16

Post by finid »

leggomylibro wrote: post #7

>So why was the stolen x-ray equipment kept a secret? I asked my source if there was some security reason for keeping the stolen x-ray equipment from the public, and was told, unequivocally, no. “It’s because the mom from the midwest planning to fly her kids to Disney would freak out. They are worried that people would stop flying if they knew.” Kind of ironic, because I've already stopped flying - not because I'm af…

Yes, a stateroom on a cargo ship sounds like it would be fun. Something to try one of these days.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#18

Post by tsaoutourpants »

jaclaz wrote: post #14
tsaoutourpants wrote: post #2

Hi All, author of the article here. Happy to answer any questions you may have about the laptop ban, aviation security, TSA assholery, Trump's travel-related civil rights abuses (incl. the "Muslim ban"), or other such topics of interest. And, thanks for the support... HN is always one of the first communities to upvote my work and help me share it with the world. As a computer scientist turned almost-lawyer, I defini…

While it is perfectly possible that a scanning device disappeared somewhere, it is not the only way someone can study how to conceal hidden explosive in luggage. I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? Does the same happen for all technicia…

Hi jaclaz,

> I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours?

No, although after-hours testing may set off some alarms. I'm sure their on-hours experience would be useful, though.

> Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these devices?

No.

> Does the same happen for all designers of these devices?

Nope.

> Or if you prefer, do you believe that such a scanning machine cannot be re-built from commercial parts by someone who knows their innards?

Yes, I do believe that rebuilding a modern, advanced x-ray system from scrap components is beyond the capabilities of ISIS at the moment.

> Are ALL purchases of new scanners subject to governemnet approval (and even if yes, which government)?

The modern, advanced x-ray systems are not available to the general public. As to how exactly they are controlled, I'm not sure.

See also my comments to other users regarding the differences between modern x-rays and old school ones.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#19

Post by tsaoutourpants »

wwwv wrote: post #15
_0w8t wrote: post #10

As lithium batteries are opaque to X-Rays, perhaps a ban on laptops with batteries should be considered. This will surely push for standard swappable batteries and standard power supplies so the laptops could be used on board without batteries.

They are not opaque to X-Rays, much less the ludicrous penetrating power used in baggage inspection. Baggage X-rays can happily penetrate inches of metal, nothing short of lead brick will obscure contents and that's going to raise other questions. Where did you get that nonsense from?

X-ray machines have to be calibrated. While you could turn up the power to see through metal, you would then be unable to see the less dense items. This makes it difficult to do a full inspection in the few seconds that the screener has.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#20

Post by Animats »

finid wrote: post #16
leggomylibro wrote: post #7

>So why was the stolen x-ray equipment kept a secret? I asked my source if there was some security reason for keeping the stolen x-ray equipment from the public, and was told, unequivocally, no. “It’s because the mom from the midwest planning to fly her kids to Disney would freak out. They are worried that people would stop flying if they knew.” Kind of ironic, because I've already stopped flying - not because I'm af…

Yes, a stateroom on a cargo ship sounds like it would be fun. Something to try one of these days.

No longer available. Considered a hijacking risk.
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