Get your loved ones off Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#161

Post by acchow » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:39 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #138

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

But what's the advantage of Facebook over email and/or texting? I feel like for anything other than wasting time Facebook is sluggish compared to either. If you're a Facebook user you have a cellphone and/or a computer, and can do everything Facebook does: share pictures, plan events, check-in with friends, family, and groups of people. And not share data* or be peppered with garbage advertisements. * I personally pa…

> But what's the advantage of Facebook over email and/or texting?

An email conversation thread (in say, Gmail) is a poor man's version of a Facebook post. You can add more people to the thread, but they have to look at this poorly formatted "quoted" history of the email to get context of what's going on. Contrast this with a FB Post where you can just tag someone and they see the post in exactly the same format as you see it. No weird formatting.

You can create "subthreads" inside FB posts by replying to a comment in a post. This doesn't exist in an email conversation.

FB Posts have a URL - you can link to them. This mode of communication does not exist in email.

FB Groups are a much more powerful version of email lists. They can contain events, people can mark themselves as "interested" or "going to" events - share these events with friends.

Do you use FB?

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#162

Post by 24gttghh » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:44 PM UTC

milcron wrote: post #109

Animats wrote: post #97

Useful hints: - Put anything on Facebook you're willing to have on a public web page. Stop there. - Don't use Facebook's messaging or email. - On desktops and laptops, run Ghostery and Privacy Badger. This keeps Facebook's "like" buttons from tracking your browsing. - Don't run Facebook's phone app. It's way too intrusive; it gives your contact list to Facebook, just for starters. - Remember, sharing is spamming. Don…

Uninstall Facebook's phone app and check out mbasic.facebook.com. It doesn't require javascript to run. You can access Messenger and everything.

Except only seeing 4-5 messages from an active conversation at once on the basic site is basically unusable.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#163

Post by joshstrange » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:44 PM UTC

flubert wrote: post #157

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

>Like it or not there is a social stigma around NOT having a FB account. In fact I've thought on multiple occasions that someone is hiding something if they don't have one. Anyone have a source of "further reading" on perceptions towards people not on facebook? And does anyone have statistics on how many people in the U.S. are not on facebook?

I just did a google for "stigma against not being on facebook" and found a handful of articles that look decent.

Edit: Did mean to phrase that like "just google it" I just don't have time right now to vet the articles and didn't want to post links before reading them.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#164

Post by glenda » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:46 PM UTC

noobhacker wrote: post #147

Fezzik wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the advantage of Facebook over email and/or texting? I feel like for anything other than wasting time Facebook is sluggish compared to either. If you're a Facebook user you have a cellphone and/or a computer, and can do everything Facebook does: share pictures, plan events, check-in with friends, family, and groups of people. And not share data* or be peppered with garbage advertisements. * I personally pa…

Advantage of Facebook over email / texting: - Facebook shows me updates about friends that I wouldn't otherwise know about. These updates provide an opportunity for a quick connect that is appropriately shallow, just enough to keep the relationship warm. - For many people I have their FB, but not their email, let alone their phone number. I discover these people through FB's mutual friend suggestion. These people can…

These all sound like they could be disadvantages to another person.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#165

Post by type0 » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

> In fact I've thought on multiple occasions that someone is hiding something if they don't have one.

I feel the same about people who do use facebook, when they take pictures of me and others who are not on "The Social Network", then they put those on facebook for others to see with other personal information without concent, they don't inform me about their comments regarding those pictures.

For all I know those people could be making fun of me for not being on facebook, not being social enough, having unfashionable clothes etc. From my perspective those people have something to hide, they share information in closed groups, refuse to email me those photos and waive it away like it's too much work, I have even experienced this with some of my relatives which saddens me alot. I'm not forcing them to use any specific website, forcing others to do that is nasty, it's no different than forcing others to smoke by the means of social pressure.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#166

Post by spyhi » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:51 PM UTC

noobhacker wrote: post #147

Fezzik wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the advantage of Facebook over email and/or texting? I feel like for anything other than wasting time Facebook is sluggish compared to either. If you're a Facebook user you have a cellphone and/or a computer, and can do everything Facebook does: share pictures, plan events, check-in with friends, family, and groups of people. And not share data* or be peppered with garbage advertisements. * I personally pa…

Advantage of Facebook over email / texting: - Facebook shows me updates about friends that I wouldn't otherwise know about. These updates provide an opportunity for a quick connect that is appropriately shallow, just enough to keep the relationship warm. - For many people I have their FB, but not their email, let alone their phone number. I discover these people through FB's mutual friend suggestion. These people can…

> Facebook shows me updates about friends that I wouldn't otherwise know about.

Adding to this, text messaging and emailing and deliberate and specific, which means someone has to think to include you. It takes work to figure all that out--it is an active decision to communicate instead of a passive broadcast about something general that invites people to participate. It's very easy, and a good way to keep relationships warm and to make room for serendipity.

I don't know about you, but I really dislike things like personal newsletters and text messages/emails just to strike up any conversation, probably because at any given time I'm probably pretty busy, and being present requires both thought and time. On the other hand, when I share something on social media, it means I'm pretty much willing to engage with all comers, or if I see you've updated on social media, I'll assume the same.

Secondly, if you're that random friend that insists on only communicating via text message or email or some weird idiosyncratic way that applies only to you, I'm probably going to leave you out of a lot of stuff, even if I like you, because I have limited brainpower and I'm going to forget when I'm managing 15-20 people on a social channel and trying to update you out in the wilderness.

Lastly, email and text really, really suck for discussing topics in large groups, so if I send a link I want to talk about to a bunch of friends, I have the choice of managing 15 individual conversations (with lots of repetition), or managing an incredible amount of chaos.

So yeah, IMHO social media has definitely solidified a place in the communication stack.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#167

Post by joshstrange » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

ghughes wrote: post #158

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

> The best doesn't win, the easiest does. Exactly. Diaspora and its ilk miss this point entirely. If users have to set up their own infrastructure or even think about how it works then it's never going to scale.

Even if you personally don't have to setup your own infrastructure, like if you join a friend's instance (which in this case would end up being MY instance) it still sucks. Especially for the friend (ME) who sets it up and maintains and PAYS for it. It means I instantly become tech support or the source of "Josh, Diaspora won't let me post this image...". That's the last thing I want to do in my free time.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#168

Post by posixplz » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

cylinder wrote: post #56

nvr219 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accroding to FB help: "When you delete your account, people won't be able to see it on Facebook. It may take up to 90 days from the beginning of the deletion process to delete all of the things you've posted, like your photos, status updates or other data stored in backup systems. While we are deleting this information, it is inaccessible to other people using Facebook." https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674

That doesn't answer the question as to whether they are still using the data internally.

I would imagine that they are either deleting it entirely internally or selectively deleting the data entirely in localities where the law requires them to do so. So far, only the EU has strict regulations requiring businesses to comply with valid requests to delete personal information. (EU GDPR)

From a Facebook-makes-money-from-retaining-user-data perspective, I would imagine they are making every effort to ensure they're permanently deleting user data only where legally compelled to do so.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#169

Post by joshstrange » Mon, May 22, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC

type0 wrote: post #165

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

> In fact I've thought on multiple occasions that someone is hiding something if they don't have one. I feel the same about people who do use facebook, when they take pictures of me and others who are not on "The Social Network", then they put those on facebook for others to see with other personal information without concent, they don't inform me about their comments regarding those pictures. For all I know those pe…

Expecting people to take an extra step to fit your needs (email) is really almost no different from asking them to share on another platform IMHO. They aren't hiding from you, in fact I'd put money on the table that they'd happily invite you into their group or you'd have access to the photos simply by being their friend on FB. You can't walk outside the bar then complain that none of your friends want to stand in the window and relay everything happening to you or get mad they might be talking about you when you can just walk right back in.

> it's no different than forcing others to smoke by the means of social pressure

Yeah... no different, except one of them causes cancer but sure, no different.

Re: Get your loved ones off Facebook

#170

Post by hkmurakami » Mon, May 22, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #138

joshstrange wrote: post #128

It won't be a popular opinion here but here it goes: Well if it all goes to hell we will all be in the same handbasket. I'm simply not willing to cut people out of my life and miss out on things that are important to me because my data is mined and might be used against me. All these distributed platforms are a joke, no really they are technically cool but no one I care about is on them. Maybe if your entire social c…

But what's the advantage of Facebook over email and/or texting? I feel like for anything other than wasting time Facebook is sluggish compared to either. If you're a Facebook user you have a cellphone and/or a computer, and can do everything Facebook does: share pictures, plan events, check-in with friends, family, and groups of people. And not share data* or be peppered with garbage advertisements. * I personally pa…

In a weird way, FB Messenger (or any of the messenger apps) are more "cross platform" than texting. Actually, my main friend group chats are on sms (not even imessages), and adding/removing people really is a bit of a chore. Group management is definitely done better by the apps.

That being said I'm personally still using email the most. But we have these mental associations that one liner emails are a bit frowned upon whereas texts/messages can be 3 words or just an emoticon. That mental expectation and association that has nothing to do with the technical limitations of the platform define our interaction with the tool, for better or for worse.

Lastly I really value being able to send messages on my PC since I have wrist/thumb pain which is helped immensely by the ability to use a proper keyboard.