Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 195 posts

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#91

Post by ska »

slapshot wrote: post #81
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

> if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem Well, Colorado tried that. Recreational weed has been fully legal in Colorado since January 1, 2014. You can walk down any major street in Denver or Boulder and pass multiple outlets selling marijuana. And they've sold lots of it, according to the tax receipts raised. The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped…

It will be interesting to see if this eventually puts a dent in the number of new opioid addictions - but that is a very different thing than addressing current addictions and/or transference from prescriptions to street drugs.

I suspect it will be about a decade before any really good analysis can be done on that aspect.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#92

Post by ska »

SCAQTony wrote: post #86
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

Pot would alleviate much of the heroin problem but with great advantages comes equal disadvantages. I suspect we will see these issues soon. Point number two: Marijuana is addictive and individuals with marijuana addiction entering voluntary rehab is increasing:( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/ ) Theory: The reason one does not get physical withdraws is that it is oil based, stored in the fat an…

   equal disadvantages
Are you suggesting negative effects of marijuana usage are comparable to that of opioids? That really doesn't match any of the research I know of.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#93

Post by senorjazz »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

> 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids

No it isn't and no it won't. If you have serious pain issues, then cannabis will not help at all.

If you are just referring to a slight ache in your back in the morning, ok there is some research (clinical and anecdotal) that cannabis can be useful as as anti inflammatory. But you should not be getting opiods for this anyway.

Part of the problem IMO based on speaking to various people from various countries, the US is just far too happy to prescribe strong medication (generalisation I know but still) whereas for the same ailments in other countries you would get nothing. Whether this is do to the profitization of the US health care system, or whether when you are paying as much as people in the US are you want to feel like you are getting something in return. To be told, do a few stretches, take a parecetamol (tylenol?) may not seem like good value for money, even if it is the better advice (I have seen similar behaviour in some other countries where health care if more privatised)

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#94

Post by rch »

slapshot wrote: post #81
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

> if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem Well, Colorado tried that. Recreational weed has been fully legal in Colorado since January 1, 2014. You can walk down any major street in Denver or Boulder and pass multiple outlets selling marijuana. And they've sold lots of it, according to the tax receipts raised. The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped…

I wouldn't take issue with your overall point, but the headline in your second link contradicts the article:

As prescription opioid deaths drop 6 percent in Colorado, heroin deaths rise 23 percent

vs.

Overall, the total number of opiate deaths — meaning deaths from both prescription painkillers like fentanyl or from illegal opiates like heroin — fell by about 6 percent, from 472 deaths in 2015 to 442 deaths in 2016.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#95

Post by axlprose »

slapshot wrote: post #81
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

> if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem Well, Colorado tried that. Recreational weed has been fully legal in Colorado since January 1, 2014. You can walk down any major street in Denver or Boulder and pass multiple outlets selling marijuana. And they've sold lots of it, according to the tax receipts raised. The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped…

Intuitively, this makes sense. Anyone buying heroin/meth/whatever would've likely also been exposed to the option of buying marijuana just as easily among those alternatives when it was still completely illegal. If marijuana was a viable alternative for their drug of choice, I imagine they would've just stuck with that regardless of legalization, since it's cheaper and safer.

Hence I wouldn't really expect legalization of any drug X to improve problems with any drug Y in most cases. But if legalization itself helps with drug problems in general, I might expect that only legalizing drug Y would help drug Y's problems.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#96

Post by maccard »

krapp wrote: post #71
ada1981 wrote: post #31

Legalize and tax/regulate production, purity, etc. Outlaw all marketing. Invest all profits in the following: 1) Ensuring all children have an attuned attachment figure / parents have free (or even incentivized) training to learn how to attune emotionally. 2) Psychedelic therapy centers to help heal the underlying addiction along with support and integration. 3) Community gardens / organic food production & affordabl…

> Legalize and tax/regulate production, purity, etc. Outlaw all marketing. Why outlaw marketing? If all drugs are legal and regulated, there should be no issue with advertising them like any other legal and regulated product. The US already allows advertising for pharmaceuticals, it should allow advertising for every other drug. And why should drug companies have to invest their profits in the programs you describe?…

If you look at countries that aren't the US, this is exactly how they treat alcohol. e.g. Diageo run the DrinkAware campaigns [0], france forbids any marketing of alcohol (even going as far as to rename a major sporting tournament the H cup instead of the heineken cup, and forcing teams to not display their sponsors on their kits)

I'd argue that the US is wrong in allowing for pharmaceuticals as it does. In the UK, advertising is allowed for OTC drugs, but not prescription drugs [1]

> Your comment implies that you believe certain drugs would present a societal harm if legalized, and that extraordinary efforts should be taken to mitigate that damage. But if so, why legalize them to begin with?

Tobacco usage is associated with massive societal harm, and in european countries has very specific controls. In the UK, you cannot smoke in many places, there is no tobacco advertising allowed, all packaging must be plain (from this saturday I believe), and there is minimum pricing in place. I personally believe that people should be allowed to smoke if they choose to, but there is no denying that these measures have had a massive impact on the number of people who regularly smoke. (as an anecdote, almost all of my friends parents smoke, whereas almost none of my friends do)

[0] http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/6465/Diageo_... [1] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advertise-your-medicines

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#97

Post by senorjazz »

SCAQTony wrote: post #86
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

Pot would alleviate much of the heroin problem but with great advantages comes equal disadvantages. I suspect we will see these issues soon. Point number two: Marijuana is addictive and individuals with marijuana addiction entering voluntary rehab is increasing:( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/ ) Theory: The reason one does not get physical withdraws is that it is oil based, stored in the fat an…

Cannabis addiction (and I agree it exists) is not in the same league as opioid addiction.

Heavy smokers may feel different when stopping, may have a few sleepless nights due to dreams returning, may be irritable, feel bored, but it is not at all comparable to those coming off a heavy opioid addiction.

There is no equal disadvantage. If all heroin addicts were to magically over night turn into cannabis addicts and no longer be heroin addicts there will be many advantages and next to no disadvantages. Crime will go down. They will become employable, they will be able to lead "normal" lives. Disadvantages? I am not really thinking of any, let alone any that are equal

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#98

Post by bnferguson »

SCAQTony wrote: post #86
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

Pot would alleviate much of the heroin problem but with great advantages comes equal disadvantages. I suspect we will see these issues soon. Point number two: Marijuana is addictive and individuals with marijuana addiction entering voluntary rehab is increasing:( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/ ) Theory: The reason one does not get physical withdraws is that it is oil based, stored in the fat an…

The study you pointed to for point number two are ten years old and predate pot being legal in any states at the recreational level.

Additionally those stats are often considered to be enormously skewed as one of the primary ways you can avoid a drug charge in some places is to "voluntarily" enter rehab for it. So while it looks like pot addiction is up, it is really that pot arrests are up.

This would also explain why in the study minorities seem to have a higher rate of "addiction", as they're more than twice as likely to be arrested for minor drug charges and thus more likely to be put in this situation.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#99

Post by throwaway2016a »

slapshot wrote: post #81
throwaway2016a wrote: post #44

This is probably pop psychology but it always struck me that if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem. My thoughts are... 1. It is reportedly a better pain killer in some cases than opioids so it keeps people off of the prescription opioids 2. It is nowhere near as addictive (possibly not addictive at all) 3. When people are already criminals (because they smoke weed) I think they are more l…

> if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem Well, Colorado tried that. Recreational weed has been fully legal in Colorado since January 1, 2014. You can walk down any major street in Denver or Boulder and pass multiple outlets selling marijuana. And they've sold lots of it, according to the tax receipts raised. The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped…

> The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped for.

I didn't say "sudden". I think it would take time.

Addiction doesn't happen overnight. I am open minded and I am not going to ignore research if the research doesn't support my view. But my hunch is, it is too soon or too much damage has already been done and we need to take other steps to reduce usage not just legalization.

Incidentally I thought I saw some research that showed the opposite effect but I can't find the link right now... I'll take a look for it later and see if I can find it.

Re: The Heroin Business Is Booming in America

#100

Post by mmjaa »

kogepathic wrote: post #64
prbuckley wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know who cares about these addicts, their families, who are the voting constituents of these politicians. The heroin epidemic is the worst in many traditionally republican states. I think you may find there is more bipartisan support for fixing the heroin problem than there is consensus around hot button topics like abortion.

> You know who cares about these addicts, their families, who are the voting constituents of these politicians. You're making the assumption that their families have the resources to pay for their treatment. Nearly half of Americans are one pay cheque away from not being able to make ends meet. [0] [1] [2] Here's a poverty map of America: http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/01/05/poverty-map/ [0] http://www.mark…

Some of us have families. Some of us know addicts. Between these sets, there are enough humans willing to take responsibility and help the addict. Your problem?
Post reply on HN