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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

251–260 of 645 posts

Re: My Family’s Slave

#251
post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

> the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated [domestic] labor

Absolutely. This observation was/is the catalyst of many leftist movements, for example Wages For Housework:

> The Campaign was formed to raise awareness of how housework and childcare are the base of all industrial work and to stake the claim that these unavoidable tasks should be compensated as paid wage labor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wages_for_housework

Re: My Family’s Slave

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western cultures were the ones who decided slavery was a universal sin and had to be eradicated everywhere. Were they wrong?

No, they were not. Slavery is a universal wrong.

Only because we were fortunate enough that the culture that ended up banning it won out. In fact we are lucky that Western culture took this path at all.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#253

I visited Hong Kong a year ago. It is famous for its night markets, its abundant partying, and the massive financial powerhouses that make their home here. I did all the tourist things, I partied, I explored, it was great. A couchsurfing host showed me around the city on a tram. She pointed out masses of ladies in plain clothing sitting around on the sidewalks and in streets. It was a Sunday. This was the "maids day"…

When I first saw Hong Kong I fell in love with the place and have wanted to live there ever since. But I also quickly realized that it is a hellish place if you have no resources.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#254
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... the one thing I most need to get my life back is an online income adequate to support myself... I stated it as clearly as I know how, yet people routinely assume I am "panhandling the internet." Because prejudice etc.

Or because of how you phrase things, maybe. I won't rule out that I'm prejudiced -- it's all but a certainty that I am, to some extent or another. But despite that, I don't normally think women are asking me for money on the internet.

I am the highest ranked woman on HN because women are generally not all that warmly welcomed here. So if you don't think women are asking you for money on the internet, maybe it is because you are mostly talking to men.

It is hard to ask for anything at all when silenced by the general behavior of men online. I offend in part because I fail to shut up, in spite of the sometimes horrible treatment I receive through no fault of my own.

I routinely hear men here tell each other that their high karma is evidence of competence. No one says that about me -- except me. When I say it, it gets ridiculed.

I routinely see men here ask for help with making their businesses profitable. They are not misinterpreted as begging for money. When I do it, I am accused of panhandling or ignored or it otherwise typically is not very helpful.

It would be nice if you would just stop digging your grave deeper. Your first remark was just sort of dumb. But you get more offensive with each iteration of telling me it is somehow all my fault that I can't get taken seriously no matter how hard I try, a thing I have been doing for literally years, which is part of how I ended up the highest ranked woman here.

The next closest openly female member is many, many thousands of points behind me, yet I am far from the bottom rung of the leaderboard. So all the evidence suggests that, sadly, I get taken more seriously here and get more respect than most women who basically don't bother to open their mouths, even when they have serious tech jobs.

I have many thousands more karma than the only female cofounder of Y Combinator, Jessica Livingston. She currently has 3521, which is hundreds more than she had the last time I looked. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jl

Re: My Family’s Slave

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, this entire thread is making me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Typically, I appreciate the nuanced, thoughtful, and introspective discussions we tend to have here. In this case? Like, what the fuck is there even to discuss here? This is black and white. You free the slave and deal with "social inconveniences" or whatever. Jesus Christ.

To me, I'm wondering where the mistreatment is. We have someone sleeping on a matt, and getting a daily wake up call to do their work. Work which presumably they are being paid for---we don't know if they're not being paid for the work. Now in the USA, sleeping on a matt in the kitchen is some kind of terrible situation that no one would live with but.... In my country, I slept on a matt as a child. I wasn't poor. We…

So much this! I am appalled at this thread possibly full of non-asian people who think having a room and board househelp is slavery.

They are free to quit and renegotiate salaries. Their children are free to do whatever they want, infact we help in their education and give them gifts. If anything it tends to be a more empathic employer-employee relationship, albeit with shit salary.

There is real slavery however, bonded labour, forced child beggars. Seeing this not being mentioned at all, I don't think we have many asian people here, just westerners speculating.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, What did your mom say? "Paid house keeper plus all supplies and food. Helped her family also." While I have no proof, I'm inclined to believe her. It's hard to imagine my parents owning a slave AND the US Military allowing it's personnel to keep slaves AND word of that not making it back to the US Mainland.

Knowing how base authorities handle off-base housing, I'd say the chances of this are next to zero. I doubt there's a military officer who isn't fully aware that the US's war with the most casualties was the one to end slavery.

I'm sure some of the strategists in Vietnam were well aware of the horrors of chemical warfare but chose to coat many acres of forests with Agent Orange regardless. Just like any sufficiently large organization, the military has members on every rung of the empathy/introspection spectrum.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, What did your mom say? "Paid house keeper plus all supplies and food. Helped her family also." While I have no proof, I'm inclined to believe her. It's hard to imagine my parents owning a slave AND the US Military allowing it's personnel to keep slaves AND word of that not making it back to the US Mainland.

Knowing how base authorities handle off-base housing, I'd say the chances of this are next to zero. I doubt there's a military officer who isn't fully aware that the US's war with the most casualties was the one to end slavery.

Curious, How do base authorities handle off base housing? My husband is in the military and our off base housing is just a normal house we bought. Base authorities have nothing to do with our house. I'm wondering if you're talking about military owned off base housing? Here they are wholly operated by a private company and also rent to civilians and aren't really much different than renting normal private housing.

We've never lived overseas though. I imagine that's pretty different.

I totally believe you have different experience than me, I'm curious to what they are.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#258
post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

Women actually control the majority of discretionary spending, and not because they make more money. The fact that there is no contract does not mean the work is not compensated.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#259
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like ... slavery-lite. Fundamentally what's the difference between Lola's role and a common role of a wife a hundred years ago?* And second – a dangerous question – is it necessarily wrong? I ask not to lead one to believe to think that it isn't, certainly there are aspects which are unquestionable immoral, but is there room for such a social construct? More importantly, answering why not in a robust way could m…

The Fine Article mentions a number of times where Lola was not allowed freedom of movement. She had no freedom of movement, no pay (or ability to direct money), no personal life, no say in what she did, and was kept in place by fear. It certainly wasn't the common role of a wife a hundred years ago to be kept from a dying parent, for example. The nature of her labour is not what made Lola a slave; it was the circumst…

It might not have been the nominal role of a wife, but shared characteristics of that life were not uncommon.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#260
post #213
post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

> An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. In isolation, I think I can agree with that. But in context you seem to be making a moral point using "slavery" as a jumping-off point to an economic argument. Needless to say, slavery isn't well-defined by "compensation". That whole "freedom" angle tends to be more important to most people.

Certainly one could question to what extent wage earners are truly "free" given the need to continue to perform wage labor to survive.
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