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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#171

Post by prawn »

Mz wrote: post #162
achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

I have seen career women kind of jokingly say "I need a wife." I was struck by the fact that Alex's mother, whom some people here are vilifying, managed to have a serious career like a man because she had Lola at home to do all the "women's work." This is mostly being overlooked in discussion and I didn't know how to bring it up myself. I appreciate you remarking upon it.

You might find the following book interesting - my wife recommends it to many people. It's by Australian political writer Annabel Crabb.

The Wife Drought - Why women need wives, and men need lives https://penguin.com.au/books/the-wife-drought-9780857984289

"'I need a wife' -- It’s a common joke among women juggling work and family. But it’s not actually a joke. Having a spouse who takes care of things at home is a Godsend on the domestic front. It’s a potent economic asset on the work front. And it’s an advantage enjoyed – even in our modern society – by vastly more men than women."

Re: My Family’s Slave

#172

Post by randyrand »

I'm curious how this story fits into today's US politics. For those that are unaware, the Atlantic is a politically left USA website, so typically there is some connection to modern politics in the life-story pieces.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#173

Post by Balgair »

venture_lol wrote: post #166
SCHiM wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you go searching for meaning, chase all the leads, trying to separate wrong from right. What you find is that beyond all the pop culture tropes, the outrage and terror about the latest and greatest paedophile revelation, evil greedy capitalists banker stories, murderous terrorists and backstabbing trophy wives and all the other stories about 'true monsters'. You'll find that all the monsters are just humans. Jus…

There are good people and bad people. There are monsters and humans even if monsters may have human shape and form. There is good and there is evil. One evil act does not absolve another. Goodness lives forever and evil does not die either

Thank you for that. It is very hard to remember that good also lasts just like evil. So, I guess, choose what you will and know that they both will live on past yourself.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#174

Post by beachy »

lordnacho wrote: post #20

I had a terrible "Billy" moment a few years ago. I was travelling and a friend said I could use her house, because it was empty. This was perfect for me, since I had a wife and kid. It turns out there was a housekeeper. She did everything for us, made us feel very comfortable, cooked, served, helped with the kid, etc. Then one day I found out she didn't have her own room, despite the place being a multi storey mansio…

Was she a slave? When travelling in Vietnam (and probably plenty of other places) its pretty common to find the staff at little hotels all sleeping on mats on the floor in the kitchen. Its not a big deal - to get to the fridge you might need to step over and around them. None of these people are slaves, though they are certainly lowly paid workers.

Is it unusual to have this arrangement in a private home? I don't know.

The opprobrium from other commenters seems a little steeped in our own western views as to what's right and wrong, and I think your plan of digging more into the situation sounds an appropriate one.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#175

Post by chrisallenlane »

MrLeap wrote: post #98
Chaebixi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question in my mind that I would confront anyone I knew engaging in the situation you're describing. Among my circles, injustices always seem to be a third person. But there should be a question in your mind unless you've actually confronted something like this yourself (with all of it's associated complexity). Until then, your certainty is only a fantasy.

Sure, a fantasy. I doubt you can be convinced, but let me try. I was always sure that if someone broke into my home, I would confront them - lethally - if necessary, despite any complexities. Dignity is important to me, and I'm willing to take risks to keep it. When I was a sweet summer child I used to think that was the default state of adulthood. Well, recently someone did break into my home at 3am. Coincidentally…

For what it's worth, this entire thread is making me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Typically, I appreciate the nuanced, thoughtful, and introspective discussions we tend to have here.

In this case? Like, what the fuck is there even to discuss here? This is black and white. You free the slave and deal with "social inconveniences" or whatever. Jesus Christ.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#176

Post by achou »

lacampbell wrote: post #160
achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. Just ask your mom. Are you insinuating that in a traditional nuclear family, where a father provides all the money for housing, food, clothing and sundry - the mothers house work constitutes "uncompensated labour"? And that this is the basis of capitalism? What's your humane socialist alternative? Collectivising the childre…

My point is that the systems we've built optimize for things we choose to measure. We're very much measuring and optimizing for money and the kinds of goods and services money can be exchanged for. But to a startling degree we're not choosing to measure all the other hard work that has to get done if we expect humanity to exist beyond one generation.

This article just puts it in stark relief for me. All of the work that Lola had to do for so many decades, working herself to exhaustion... all of that work still needs to get done for every other family too.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#178

Post by Balgair »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #117
Balgair wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity is both so strange and so static. We got 'rid' of slavery in most of the world no later than a century ago. It was bloody and difficult to do, but we managed it. Yet, there are still people living as just the same as slaves century or more ago, in a world of space ships and the internet. Yeah, tech has helped, we don't have smallpox anymore and the mass famines have stopped recently, but the deeper gestal ps…

When I was in the Boy Scouts, we had this saying for when we were out camping and hiking. It was "you're only as fast as your slowest hiker". I realize that the context here isn't the same but the concept is still very much applicable. We as a species can only be judged and advance as fast as our as the 'slowest' of us are willing to move.

This is a very good point! Thank you. If this is the case, that we can even be judged as a whole, then it is sad. But it gives the proper perspective on what our species should be working on in a moral way. Bringing up the 'bottom' though difficult, is much more noble and better for us all than the efforts of trying to get the 'top' even higher. Maybe this is something many older religions have recognized

Re: My Family’s Slave

#179

Post by dikdik »

ensignavenger wrote: post #129
southphillyman wrote: post #100

Interesting that the author and his siblings had empathy for the servant. In most American Slavery stories the entire household, including young children, are portrayed as being evil and unforgiving towards the slaves. In these situations I wonder if there is any sort of innate feeling of compassion and decency and how that manifest itself in a culture where slavery and cruelty is the norm.

Many such American slavery stories are just that- stories. There are plenty of real examples of American slave owners across the spectrum from evil cruelty to compassionate caring, even love.

you can't be compassionate if your compassion only extends to the point that it starts to have any negative effect on your life.

Then you're just a dick that wants to pretend you are a better person than you are.

The author is as compassionate as many of the Republicans in Congress. They care! They really do, just not enough to vote in anyway that would make a difference to the things they proclaim to care about.

I really appreciate the author sharing something so personal, but his entire family is less than human.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#180

Post by frandroid »

praneshp wrote: post #155
jstewartmobile wrote: post #108

Most of the guys I went to engineering school with were Indians (Brahmins), and they'd frequently mention how the jobs here paid more, but they still wanted to go back to India because they'd have to treat their servants "differently" here. I just assumed it was a payroll issue. Perhaps I assumed wrongly.

Did you usually ask your Indian clasmates' caste? Or did they volunteer that information themselves?

Many Brahmins I know can't help themselves but tell others about it, unlike people from other castes.
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