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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#121

Post by patrickw »

merpnderp wrote: post #53
balls187 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, What did your mom say? "Paid house keeper plus all supplies and food. Helped her family also." While I have no proof, I'm inclined to believe her. It's hard to imagine my parents owning a slave AND the US Military allowing it's personnel to keep slaves AND word of that not making it back to the US Mainland.

Knowing how base authorities handle off-base housing, I'd say the chances of this are next to zero. I doubt there's a military officer who isn't fully aware that the US's war with the most casualties was the one to end slavery.

"Has the US military come to rely on an indentured workforce?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEovFBU7V9Q

"[Iraq and Afghanistan war] foreign workers are known, in military parlance, as 'third-country nationals,' or TCNs. Many of them recount having been robbed of wages, injured without compensation, subjected to sexual assault, and held in conditions resembling indentured servitude by their subcontractor bosses. Previously unreleased contractor memos, hundreds of interviews, and government documents I obtained during a yearlong investigation confirm many of these claims and reveal other grounds for concern. Widespread mistreatment even led to a series of food riots in Pentagon subcontractor camps, some involving more than a thousand workers."

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/06/06/the-invisible-a...

Re: My Family’s Slave

#122

Post by logfromblammo »

lordnacho wrote: post #20

I had a terrible "Billy" moment a few years ago. I was travelling and a friend said I could use her house, because it was empty. This was perfect for me, since I had a wife and kid. It turns out there was a housekeeper. She did everything for us, made us feel very comfortable, cooked, served, helped with the kid, etc. Then one day I found out she didn't have her own room, despite the place being a multi storey mansio…

This is why US government employees and employees of contractors get mandatory training in how to recognize human trafficking.

In this situation, at the very minimum, you need to ask "Do you feel your employer treats you fairly? I will keep your answer confidential."

If the answer is "yes", then your moral obligation is satisfied. If the answer is "no", you may have to dig down through "uncomfortable situation," potentially to "friendship-ending argument about unethical behavior."

Re: My Family’s Slave

#123

Post by lacampbell »

seppin wrote: post #116
tmaly wrote: post #114

Lola happens to be the word for Grandma in the Philippines. The description of this idea of a live in slave is alive and well in many parts of Asian and the Middle East. Life in the Philippines is quite a struggle especially in the provinces. I know of a few people that live and work in Hong Kong doing the same job described in the article, but they are doing it for two families for very little pay.

I am wrong to think that this kind of thing is more acceptable in Asia than anywhere else?

It's more acceptable outside the west. Western cultures were the ones who decided slavery was a universal sin and had to be eradicated everywhere.

There are still whole races of people kept as slaves in sub-saharan Africa, for example. And I mean outright slavery, no ambiguity about it.

Abolitionism is a Eurocentric concept.

Another example from Asia. Two people were kept as slaves for 14 years in a tofu factory. This is in a developed country with a GDP per capita comparable to Spains. They were caught and fined 40k USD, no jail time.

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3105152

Re: My Family’s Slave

#124

Post by SCHiM »

Balgair wrote: post #83
shas3 wrote: post #51

Great read! Many Asian countries have the concept of live-in housekeepers. I think the 'best' (scraping the bottom, here) arrangement is in Singapore, where the government, laws, and law-enforcement ensure that immigrant live-in housekeepers are treated fairly- kinda like au pairs, etc. in the US. I knew someone in India who brought their live-in maid's sister to the US in some capacity (and AFAIK, paid her wages- sh…

Humanity is both so strange and so static. We got 'rid' of slavery in most of the world no later than a century ago. It was bloody and difficult to do, but we managed it. Yet, there are still people living as just the same as slaves century or more ago, in a world of space ships and the internet. Yeah, tech has helped, we don't have smallpox anymore and the mass famines have stopped recently, but the deeper gestal ps…

When you go searching for meaning, chase all the leads, trying to separate wrong from right. What you find is that beyond all the pop culture tropes, the outrage and terror about the latest and greatest paedophile revelation, evil greedy capitalists banker stories, murderous terrorists and backstabbing trophy wives and all the other stories about 'true monsters'. You'll find that all the monsters are just humans. Just like you and me.

It's easy to see from far away what is bad, people all over the western world can point at Hitler in their history books as an example of absolute evil. But then we'd be missing the complete picture, which is so much worse if you cling to a traditional view of good and evil. Normal school curriculum (at least where I'm from) does not teach about the horrific things Belgium did in the Congo up until the 1960s Or any of the other decimations/genocides caused directly or indirectly as a result of occupation by the various colonial powers. Or all the terrible things our ancestors did even further in the past when news spread so much slower or not at all.

There was a Byzantine king named Basil. Who, after defeating a Bulgarian army and capturing a number of their soldiers, blinded 99 out of every 100 captured soldiers and sent them back to Bulgaria to cripple their economy and to sabotage future war efforts. Man is a savage evil creature imo. I don't think we ever truly can change. The civilization I and many others enjoy in the western world is a fragile thing I think. And if we can't make it stick and spread, and I don't think I can, then when the troubles get too bad we'll be back to savagery soon enough, or not as the bomb is still hanging above our heads even if it doesn't feel like that any more.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#125

Post by naiveattack »

Cyph0n wrote: post #113
naiveattack wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made no comment on whether it was or was not inexcusable. This isn't about what I believe is correct. Merely on the paradoxes and hypocrisy in this rather large stream of replies. What exactly makes it inexcusable to you though? The fact that the owner of the house could but did not, and the proximity of the rooms? That's what I'm talking about.

It's inexcusable because it's expected that the housemaid gets his/her own private area. Remember, they are employees, and their job is to maintain the household. They are not "homeless" people skulking around the house. I've lived in a country where live-in housemaids are quite widespread and this kind of behavior would definitely be out of the ordinary, especially among more affluent families. Yes, worse things can…

Yes, it is the relationship between them that makes this strange. The closeness.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#126

Post by sidlls »

scarletsally wrote: post #109
jnbiche wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of employed help is sometimes even bigger than their own family. And they are treated as employees -- complete with uniforms etc. I think it would be helpful to distinguish between a true remunerated employer-employee relationship like what you appear to describe above, and unpaid slavery like what is described in the article. The former is a valued part of the economy in many developing country (if you'…

You're right. In the middle class, the relationship isn't as distinguished. Usually, the salary really is just an "allowance", like the author stated. Other families already consider feeding the help & providing a roof for them as their salary.

Those other families are masters in a master-slave relationship.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#127

Post by MrZongle2 »

lacampbell wrote: post #123
seppin wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am wrong to think that this kind of thing is more acceptable in Asia than anywhere else?

It's more acceptable outside the west. Western cultures were the ones who decided slavery was a universal sin and had to be eradicated everywhere. There are still whole races of people kept as slaves in sub-saharan Africa, for example. And I mean outright slavery, no ambiguity about it. Abolitionism is a Eurocentric concept. Another example from Asia. Two people were kept as slaves for 14 years in a tofu factory. Thi…

Western cultures were the ones who decided slavery was a universal sin and had to be eradicated everywhere.

Were they wrong?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#128

Post by hkmurakami »

lordnacho wrote: post #84
Jare wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picture yourself telling this story to your kid one day. Then your kid asking you "and what did you do?" Then yourself telling them what you did or what you did not do. If you are honest throughout that mental exercise, your next steps, whatever they may be, should be a lot easier to take.

Going through it in my head now, actually. It seems there's an opportunity to meet my friend in person soon. I'll use it to ask about what exactly happened. It's not the kind of thing that comes across well electronically, you really need to be there in real time looking at the reaction. It also needs to be managed properly because this friend is in a somewhat fragile state for completely separate reasons. The last t…

Perhaps the situation you find yourself in is so egregious that it is "worth" the risk of losing a friendship, possibly troubling your friend even more, and you yourself going through much emotional distress leading up to, and during the conversation.

I've been accused by a friend for not doing enough in a much less egregious situation (but also in the category of morality and equality), and understand the social difficulty in broaching such a topic, especially if you don't know them well.

It's easy to say "do the right thing" on an internet forum to a stranger, especially if you yourself haven't been in this social situation where you know what the right thing is in a vacuum, yet our survival instincts push us towards not stirring the water. I think your reaction thus far is completely rational given such an alien situation (which is where I found myself in the past).

I just want to say that your internal turmoil is being discounted too much by other commenters. I hope that you can find internal peace and understanding of where you stand and what you believe in for yourself, not because someone tells you that's what people "should do", before doing or saying anything, because that is the only way we can sustain both our moral and emotional health.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#129

Post by ensignavenger »

southphillyman wrote: post #100

Interesting that the author and his siblings had empathy for the servant. In most American Slavery stories the entire household, including young children, are portrayed as being evil and unforgiving towards the slaves. In these situations I wonder if there is any sort of innate feeling of compassion and decency and how that manifest itself in a culture where slavery and cruelty is the norm.

Many such American slavery stories are just that- stories. There are plenty of real examples of American slave owners across the spectrum from evil cruelty to compassionate caring, even love.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#130

Post by lacampbell »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #127
lacampbell wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more acceptable outside the west. Western cultures were the ones who decided slavery was a universal sin and had to be eradicated everywhere. There are still whole races of people kept as slaves in sub-saharan Africa, for example. And I mean outright slavery, no ambiguity about it. Abolitionism is a Eurocentric concept. Another example from Asia. Two people were kept as slaves for 14 years in a tofu factory. Thi…

Western cultures were the ones who decided slavery was a universal sin and had to be eradicated everywhere. Were they wrong?

No, they were not. Slavery is a universal wrong.
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