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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#241

Post by cirgue »

achou wrote: post #176
lacampbell wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. Just ask your mom. Are you insinuating that in a traditional nuclear family, where a father provides all the money for housing, food, clothing and sundry - the mothers house work constitutes "uncompensated labour"? And that this is the basis of capitalism? What's your humane socialist alternative? Collectivising the childre…

My point is that the systems we've built optimize for things we choose to measure. We're very much measuring and optimizing for money and the kinds of goods and services money can be exchanged for. But to a startling degree we're not choosing to measure all the other hard work that has to get done if we expect humanity to exist beyond one generation. This article just puts it in stark relief for me. All of the work t…

We did optimize for that, and our optimizations became gendered division of labor that enforced rigid gender roles.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#242

Post by Mz »

diN0bot wrote: post #214
Consultant32452 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're very much measuring and optimizing for money and the kinds of goods and services money can be exchanged for. "Money" is just a metric of economic value, and basically everything has an economic value, including leisure. The emotional and educational value of raising your own children instead of putting them in a daycare has a real economic value that can be measured in dollars. Just like housework has an econo…

we could as a society pay (women) people for emotional labor and for taking care of children and elderly. we could choose to economically value teachers and nurses instead of economically devaluing "feminine" roles -- and creating economic value specifically for masculine-branded roles. (those moments when piloting and programming became branded and $$ as male professions) in order to end professional segregation, we…

we could as a society pay (women) people for emotional labor and for taking care of children and elderly.

This tends to not work. Paying people to care often means paying people to pretend to care. This often goes bad places.

Furthermore, the history of paid work suggests that the unpaid labor of mothers in the family is the critical thing and we shifted "jobs" (gender based work) around to make family life still function while freeing up men to go do paid work in order to benefit all involved parties. Until around 300 years ago, most people were literally and directly working to put food on the table. Men hunted or raised crops. Women had vegetable gardens and did the cooking. Women did the sewing to provide clothing. Etc. Money was generally in short supply.

I write at times about such things on my blog. I hope we can find better solutions than what we are doing now. But your position is not really all that well thought out or researched. Reactionary stuff of this sort is not helpful. It tends to just entrench the problem.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#243

Post by khuey »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #48

I visited Hong Kong a year ago. It is famous for its night markets, its abundant partying, and the massive financial powerhouses that make their home here. I did all the tourist things, I partied, I explored, it was great. A couchsurfing host showed me around the city on a tram. She pointed out masses of ladies in plain clothing sitting around on the sidewalks and in streets. It was a Sunday. This was the "maids day"…

They're not illegal immigrants. All of that happens with the approval of the HK government.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#244

Post by prawn »

lordnacho wrote: post #84
Jare wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picture yourself telling this story to your kid one day. Then your kid asking you "and what did you do?" Then yourself telling them what you did or what you did not do. If you are honest throughout that mental exercise, your next steps, whatever they may be, should be a lot easier to take.

Going through it in my head now, actually. It seems there's an opportunity to meet my friend in person soon. I'll use it to ask about what exactly happened. It's not the kind of thing that comes across well electronically, you really need to be there in real time looking at the reaction. It also needs to be managed properly because this friend is in a somewhat fragile state for completely separate reasons. The last t…

"Hey, when I was at your place, [housekeeper's name] was sleeping in the [location] - is that normal? Does she get a room? Surely there's a spare room for her?"

"I need to keep rooms spare for when friends visit."

"When does that ever happen though? Come on man, they would understand if they had to stay nearby or squeeze into a room. [Housekeeper] is there every day. She is a gem and works so hard. I couldn't do that to someone. I think if you have a better supported employee or helper or whatever, they're more likely to be happier around your family and feel naturally interested in their role."

"She doesn't mind."

"I bet she would, but do you really think she'd feel comfortable raising that with you? You should do the right thing. Think about how valuable a comfortable room is to you. Everyone should be able to appreciate that and not sleep on a mat."

Re: My Family’s Slave

#247

Post by theparanoid »

pfooti wrote: post #236
achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

So, her name wasn't actually Lola. It was Eudocia Tomas Pulido. Lola was literally her slave name. There's a lot to talk about in the article, and I'm not super-excited about digging deep into that here on hn, but I think it's worthwhile to point out her real name.

Lola means grandmother in Tagalog.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#249

Post by obstinate »

Mz wrote: post #229
obstinate wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry. I must have misinterpreted "solve my financial problems." Typically that's a euphemism for giving money. Forgive me.

... the one thing I most need to get my life back is an online income adequate to support myself... I stated it as clearly as I know how, yet people routinely assume I am "panhandling the internet." Because prejudice etc.

Or because of how you phrase things, maybe. I won't rule out that I'm prejudiced -- it's all but a certainty that I am, to some extent or another. But despite that, I don't normally think women are asking me for money on the internet.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#250

Post by ktRolster »

ben_jones wrote: post #13
GuB-42 wrote: post #9

One thing that I find somewhat surprising will all stories involving slavery is how masters are consistently portrayed as assholes in a way that goes further than what would be a "normal" master/slave relationship. Even if you think as a slave not as a human being but as, say, a working dog, or even a nice tool, it is not proper treatment. Most dog owners genuinely love their dogs and don't punish them more than what…

Slaves often serve as a reference point for social standing in society. If you can push the bar lower, you can effectively raise your own position. I also imagine the standard appeal of bullying others and holding power over others played a role. Just to be clear I think this behavior is abhorrent, this is just my attempt to understand the mindset.

When you look down on other people, you inevitably look down on yourself.
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