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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#371

Post by digi_owl »

ziikutv wrote: post #350
digi_owl wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, that. Had it on a Home install some time back. Best i could tell was that MS was trying to update some drivers, this failed badly, had to be reverted, but that still left the relevant patch in the queue, and so Windows would try again on next reboot. Finally had to resort to some kind of downloaded wizard from Microsoft to blacklist the patch. Not sure if that will be possible on the education version (or am i c…

possibly, but I am just contempt on updating. I don't do anything illegal on this computer. I use it for browsing and playing games on steam, I think I am pretty safe. You can really avoid like 90% of the shit by... * Not going on shady sites * Not getting scammed via Phishing * Not pirating (you know, its really funny how most illegal 'patches' say, oh yeah patch is detected as trojan and its a false positive)

> * Not pirating (you know, its really funny how most illegal 'patches' say, oh yeah patch is detected as trojan and its a false positive)

Sadly i have seen various legit tools trigger the same warnings, because the developer used similar low level techniques that malware use to hide their true nature.

Basic thing is that at the CPU level all instructions are legit. And then we pile code upon code on top to try to extract the context and intent of the programmer from the behavior of the code.

In a sense that can quickly devolve into computer "racism".

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#372

Post by parrellel »

masklinn wrote: post #101
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also for forcing restarts for everything. Back when I cared I needed to I used to use ksplice to patch linux without rebooting. If Microsoft made something like this it would stop people switching off the updates.

> Also for forcing restarts for everything. And not restoring jack shit. I wouldn't mind Windows Update so much if it could competently restart my applications and restore my Explorer windows, but the only thing it does every fucking time is make the taskbar icons disappear until I force-restart the Explorer process. Though I would still mind it a lot for the insanely slow and unhelpful update process at shutdown, ev…

God, it's even worse for academic / engineering use.

Nothing is better than running a simulation for twenty hours and waking up to a nice blank desktop. /s

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#373

Post by Qwertious »

creshal wrote: post #205
appleflaxen wrote: post #172

This article is incomplete without calling out microsoft at the same time. Not many technophiles would object to a stream of pure security patches; the problem is that there isn't one. By doing MS auto-update, you could have your entire OS upgraded wholesale. If your only alternative is to manually manage updates... I guess I can see why some people opt out.

Oh, there is: Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB. What, you don't want to pay $350 on top of your Windows 10 Pro license? Too bad! Here's some mobile games for you to play.

And people already paid for their Windows 7/8 Pro licenses, and they got trashed like everyone else.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#374

Post by supernovae »

novaleaf wrote: post #356
sangnoir wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

I don't think this is the reason why most people (non tech savvy) look to turning off Windows Update. Most people don't know/care about Windows Update pushing features. However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) which is what msft has set by default (and indeed has/had no UI to modify in some versions of Win10)

This is now fixed..

But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should.

Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs2 and provide feedback if there is something you do/don't like. MS listens.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#375

Post by GhotiFish »

GlobalServices wrote: post #364
sangnoir wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

My business partner's 16-year-old kid is a hardcore "gamer" who thinks he's smarter than Microsoft. I set up a PC for him with a legal, licensed copy of Windows 10, and he promptly reset it using a pirate/cracked version of LTSB because he didn't want the "Windows 8 stuff" and he didn't want "Microsoft spying on him" Within 2 days it was full of viruses and malware. I don't let him plug his computer in to our office…

don't be too hard on him, you can only become competent by starting out incompetent.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#376

Post by supernovae »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #139
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

No. "Some of the blame"? Try "all of the blame." Windows Updates used to be pro-user. Now they're pro-Microsoft (pushing things Microsoft wants) and anti-user (routinely pushing 'features' no one wants or asked for). I disabled it a long time ago and haven't looked back. Get back to me when MS starts remembering their customers are human beings again.

I see this as more diatribe than reality..

MS has MILLIONS of people yammering for features and they go to great lengths to shorten the release cycle for getting new features to developers and customers.

I find this as a positive thing and this concept of MS as "the enemy" is absurd..

You're essentially writing off 10s of millions of happy customers participating in a growing and flourishing community without any regard..

Empathy.. its a good thing.. even if your personal choice is that of something else.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#377

Post by mattnewton »

supernovae wrote: post #374
novaleaf wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the reason why most people (non tech savvy) look to turning off Windows Update. Most people don't know/care about Windows Update pushing features. However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) which is what msft has set by default (and indeed has/had no UI to modify in some versions of Win10)

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs…

When Linux or OSX upgrades without my consent, rebooting while I am using it, then I will scream about it too. Until then, I see no hypocrasy.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#378

Post by Qwertious »

bigbugbag wrote: post #277
moonshinefe wrote: post #128

Scumbags will be scumbags and take advantage of these exploits--it's been proven over decades of internet malware history. The NSA should be focused on protecting US interests by helping these things get patched ASAP, not sitting on a treasure trove of 0-days and then they get leaked and everyone has them whilst chaos ensues. Microsoft should be focusing on providing less controversial updates, clearly categorizing e…

If the NSA and Microsoft or similar business/agencies were doing what they should there would be a lot less problems on this planet. But it does not work that way and wishful thinking and shoulds have no impact.

"Wishful thinking" leads to people trying to figure out what will have an impact - for example, perhaps calling your senator and telling them you're pissed at the NSA for hoarding their zero-days instead of actually securing them, or donating to various cross-platform Microsoft-alternatives such as Libre Office.

Telling people they're powerless and that they shouldn't bother is a great way of making them powerless.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#379

Post by helthanatos »

CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

You can make the Cortana bar disappear

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#380

Post by zanny »

Arizhel wrote: post #335
tsukikage wrote: post #310

My PC is not a toy, and is owned by me, not by you. * Don't reboot it without my consent * Don't install/run advertising without my consent * Don't install/run spyware without my consent * Don't keep interrupting my work to nag me for my consent The tasks I want to accomplish using my PC are more important to me than the tasks you want to accomplish using my PC. If the latter get in the way of the former, I will take…

>My PC is not a toy, and is owned by me, not by you. * Don't reboot it without my consent * Don't install/run advertising without my consent * Don't install/run spyware without my consent * Don't keep interrupting my work to nag me for my consent Wrong: you are implicitly agreeing to the above 4 behaviors if you willingly use a Microsoft OS. Any time you select a vendor, you implicitly agree to their business practic…

I don't know why you are getting downvoted. If people want to reclaim sovereignty over their computers while also using proprietary operating systems, they will need to get laws passed. Right now, your only right is to buy the hardware you want. From there, that hardware can deny you the right to install another OS, deny you the right to change the hardware, or deny you the right of knowing how the hardware works.

Without those, you aren't much of an owner of anything.

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