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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#271

Post by bigbugbag »

setq wrote: post #156
psyc wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car needs gas. User doesn't need the updates. > putting everyone else at risk What hyperbole. And what a bizarre thing to socially shame people over. This is like using 9/11 to emotionally argue for behavior changes, a week after 9/11.

The user is not usually in a position to decide if they need updates or not or to judge whether or not they are putting themselves at risk by not updating the machine. That's a terrible analogy. I have been shaming people for bad security practices and self-righteous ignorance for many years (even before 9/11 ironically!). I've seen too many people have been wrong and had a bad outcome including complete data loss an…

Shaming people is neither constructive nor effective at improving the issue.

The case you mention seems to be cases where having backups would have prevented the dramatic outcome.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#272

Post by ZoFreX »

bigbugbag wrote: post #236
ZoFreX wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone needs to skip an update on their own machine and their own network that is their right. And if you want your machine to DDoS Playstation Network that's your right too, right? And if I want my kid to get measles and spread it around, that's my right? As much as you may argue it's your machine, and your right, sooner or later your choices start to impact other people. What about their rights, then?

What is your point ? That microsoft should be better at security in the first place ? That Sony should refrain from playing stupid games to prevent winning stupid prizes ? That computer vulnerabilities are a contagious disease ? Man you're in for an amazing time when you will learn about that stupidity called the Internet of Things.

My point is that by connecting your machine to the internet it ceases to be solely a question of "your machine" and "your rights". There are other systems on the network too and you have a certain amount of responsibility to be a good citizen.

(and yes, I am well aware of, and utterly terrified/upset/bamboozled by, the Internet of Things)

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#273

Post by TeMPOraL »

viraptor wrote: post #176
noja wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android , the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do the…

You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android…

I had this problem all the time on a Galaxy S4. I don't remember now whether this was a 16GB or 32GB model; either way, it quickly filled up pretty much entirely by system data and apps. Having an external SD card for everything else didn't help much, and I spent over a hear with phone storage hovering barely above 500MB (if you go below, half of the stuff on the phone refuses to work).

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#274

Post by ZoFreX »

rhodysurf wrote: post #221
ZoFreX wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone needs to skip an update on their own machine and their own network that is their right. And if you want your machine to DDoS Playstation Network that's your right too, right? And if I want my kid to get measles and spread it around, that's my right? As much as you may argue it's your machine, and your right, sooner or later your choices start to impact other people. What about their rights, then?

I'm not saying never update, I'm saying let me update (manually) when I am not in the middle of using my computer for work (which may be a week or two at a time). The OS should get out of the way, not ruin what I'm working on.

True, I was a little unfair on you :)

Still, I see the software you're using as much a part of the problem as Windows here. Needing weeks of solid up-time to complete something is a challenge and doesn't seem like a realistic assumption by a developer for software running on Windows.

Why can't it remember progress and resume after a restart? That would not only make the impact of Windows Updates much smaller, but also power outages and the like.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#275

Post by bigbugbag »

setq wrote: post #23
zouhair wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope your car doesn't stop randomly against your will so it can get a refill.

Not yet. Only when you run out of gas. However in a few years, are people going to get pissed off when their Tesla has enough of their shit and drives itself to a charging point because the owner is too incompetent to heed the warnings?

As if Tesla had a monopoly on the car market as Microsoft has on the computer OS.

Then again cars only warns when the fuel tank is getting empty, Microsoft updates may happens at times and is totally unrelated to the ability of your computer to continue working.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#276

Post by mdpopescu »

a_imho wrote: post #147
xg15 wrote: post #26

That article would be more believable if Microsoft (as well as other companies) hadn't slipped all kinds of stuff in earlier updates which are not on the interest of the consumer at all. (Starting with annoying UX changes and A/B tests, to telemetry, to advertising, to removal of user software and DRM) Oftentimes it looks suspiciously as if the (rightful) need for security and quick responses is used as an excuse for…

MS is 100% responsible for this and they should reap what they sowed. Imo this blame shifting PR damage control is just insult to injury and will probably backfire.

It's similar to what banks call "identity theft" instead of "we gave someone else some of your money and now it's your problem".

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#277

Post by bigbugbag »

moonshinefe wrote: post #128

Scumbags will be scumbags and take advantage of these exploits--it's been proven over decades of internet malware history. The NSA should be focused on protecting US interests by helping these things get patched ASAP, not sitting on a treasure trove of 0-days and then they get leaked and everyone has them whilst chaos ensues. Microsoft should be focusing on providing less controversial updates, clearly categorizing e…

If the NSA and Microsoft or similar business/agencies were doing what they should there would be a lot less problems on this planet.

But it does not work that way and wishful thinking and shoulds have no impact.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#278

Post by bigbugbag »

rochak wrote: post #257

I still wonder how a company can go from Windows 7 to Windows 10 in such a short while. It was all so good, everything seemed to work in a cohesive manner. Now everything, especially the UX seems to have forgotten how to do it's job.

Not having a clue for having been irrelevant for too long and scrambling to not miss the next big thing before becoming obsolete. Seems they thought computers were about to turn into tablets and touch devices overnight (others went the same way such as ubuntu), then they tried to catch on this user tracking to display ads thing while becoming a rolling release. voila! you have now windows 10.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#279

Post by jdbernard »

Silhouette wrote: post #214
nu5500 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You're more concerned about the software being provided to you by Microsoft, who is at least presumably trying to keep you as a satisfied customer and provide a secure operating system then you are for faceless hackers connected to the Internet who's whole objective is to either out right steal people's money, disrupt people's lives, or else subvert your computer in order to launch attacks on other users?

You're more concerned about the software being provided to you by Microsoft ... then you are for faceless hackers connected to the Internet Yes. And there is no /s on this comment. We don't use much recent Microsoft software because we no longer trust it. They are going down a path we don't want to follow. With the older OSes that we do still use, principally Windows 7, we are similarly sceptical about updates, and t…

To add some additional perspective: many of us know how to add some basic level of security to our personal networks. Certainly not NSA-proof, but enough to about being owned by your average script-kiddie or wide-spectrum hacker.

So in reality we do have more concern about Microsoft's update channel, which has a trusted, straight-shot channel directly into the core of our system than we do random Joe hacker who had to bypass our NAT, find a zero-day, etc.

From a secure point of view, Windows update operates within the secure zone with root privileges. Of course that's more concerning if you don't trust it that an external hacker.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#280

Post by TremendousJudge »

fwn wrote: post #232
rhodysurf wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Ive tried group policies and the like and nothing seems to stick.

You can disable the update service. It works since at least Windows 98 and takes maybe 5 clicks.

I think you can't after the anniversary update
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