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French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

bbc.com

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Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#71

Post by Boothroid »

easilyBored wrote: post #15

Had France "fallen," EU would have been toast. Together with Germany they are the main pillars of EU. As bad as EU is, eventually they will get along just fine...or a least just as United States of America do.

It's a mixed picture though isn't it? I mean France and Germany may be fine but the same cannot be said for southern EU, which has decades long, seemingly intractable economic difficulties e.g. Mezzorgiono. I don't see that the EU has magically transformed such regions, and I suppose you can argue about the EU's ability to influence such situations, but on the other hand I don't think the Euro has helped matters.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#72

Post by grogenaut »

wayn3 wrote: post #51
grogenaut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, in the 2012 election, total votes in 2nd round was 34,861,353, out of a population of 66.81M (now). I couldn't find the total voting population easily.

47.58M registered voters. Should be about 75%

Thx

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#73

Post by wsc981 »

deanCommie wrote: post #65
wsc981 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…

Have you and your European friends tried actually addressing some of the racist beliefs you casually take for granted which lead you to discriminate against immigrants when it comes to integration into society? (They are always considered lesser, even after numerous generations in the country). Source: Am Canadian who moved to Europe 2 years ago and am constantly shocked by how racists Europeans are. I think part of…

Being in favour of strong immigration policies is not something racist I believe. Each European tax payer pays their respective governments for having a save country to raise their children in. It's the governments task to make sure the people that do enter the country are real refugees or people that add value to the economy. And above all there should be no terrorists entering the country. But currently the influx into Europe is so big that for most immigrants no proper background checks are done. Also people that have known to have fought in Syria are also allowed back into our countries (at least this is true for my country, The Netherlands). I believe from these kinds of people we should take away their citizenship.

Other countries have much more sensible immigration policies, like the USA and Australia. Or most Asian countries, for that matter.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#74

Post by pinaceae »

The most successful peace project on European soil of the last 1000 years can continue.

Naysayers of the EU need to learn history. It is worth every penny, every inch of inconvenience.

TWO fucking world wars were started by Europe, by nations that formed the Coal/Steel Union after 45 and now enjoy the longest, uninterrupted period of peace since, like, EVER.

The EU's economy is the largest in the world. You don't fuck with that. Except if you're British and can't stomach the end of your empire.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#76

Post by AlexeyBrin »

easilyBored wrote: post #67
AlexeyBrin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try to live for a few years in different European countries like Hungary, Romania and Germany. Most importantly see how each of these people see each other and their neighbours. I bet that people in Switzerland have more in common (economically and culturally) than people from Bulgaria and France have for example.

Don't even mention the Balkans...in some countries they still angrily talk about 1054 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism and 1204 (Sack of Constantinople https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(1204) ) Hopefully the new generations will care more about their iPhone 68 than ancient history.

I assume you know or realize that in certain European countries the medium monthly salary is 300 - 500 euros. Do you really think that say more than 10% of people from such a country could afford to buy an iPhone 7 ?

Most people are concerned with keeping their jobs and making enough money to live from month to month. Also, when they lose their job the politicians will tell them that this is because of EU policies, Soros, big banks and similar ...

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#77

Post by d215 »

sparkling wrote: post #64
mtgx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly "needs to change"? When I see people complain about the EU it's usually about "the EU taking their sovereignty and imposing stuff on them". So if "things are going to change" that means the EU would have to become less like the U.S. (a federal entity), and more like an aggregate of wildly different cultures and regulations (so more like the pre-EU Europe). Is that really a good thing? And do things "need…

What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed. The EU as it is right now is becoming the next Sovient Union. A undemocratic, centralised, bureaucratic superstate that strips the people from their sovereignty, independence, cultural and ethnic traditions. Further, you seem to assume that without the EU, trade between countries would somehow radically decrease, i don't see that happening. The…

> What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed.

First, If we would never try what in the past has failed then we would be really in a very stagnant state. Second, the EU has not failed, the EU is still the main reason for the prosperity most of its members have gained and still continue to gain after WWII. That it has had some backlashes recently does not mean at all that it has failed.

> The EU is not necessary for free trade.

It is not. It is however necessary for a internal economic market that guarantees the free flow of capital and labor, which is much wider/different in scope than free trade. Free trade can be arranged with a few trade treaties in neo liberal style.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#78

Post by mnm1 »

orf wrote: post #38
wsc981 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…

I don't agree with the downvotes you are receiving, you make some good overall points (but also some bad ones). Nothing is dead until it is entirely dead, and the EU idea still runs strong in people. Things need to change, as Brexit and the recent problems faced by the union have shown. Now it's down to the time to reform. I don't think Macron is choosing the status quo though, hes as much as a political outsider as…

Trump a political outsider. Lol. What a lie and many of the unthinking masses actually believed it. They probably still do. As if billionaires and politicians don't run in the exact same circles. As if it wasn't made crystal clear after the inauguration. Politics and business leadership in the U.S. are the same thing. There's no way in hell anyone's going to make billions without being a political insider.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#79

Post by Boothroid »

easilyBored wrote: post #67
AlexeyBrin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try to live for a few years in different European countries like Hungary, Romania and Germany. Most importantly see how each of these people see each other and their neighbours. I bet that people in Switzerland have more in common (economically and culturally) than people from Bulgaria and France have for example.

Don't even mention the Balkans...in some countries they still angrily talk about 1054 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism and 1204 (Sack of Constantinople https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(1204) ) Hopefully the new generations will care more about their iPhone 68 than ancient history.

I heard that the residents of Cadiz still hate Sir Francis Drake for his raid in 1587! Don't know how true that is though. Incidentally Cadiz is definitely worth a visit.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#80

Post by agumonkey »

enraged_camel wrote: post #69
agumonkey wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah totally. I wished for a 20%. Alas time moves quick and I couldn't act to ensure this locally. 35% is still way too high, but the worst is avoided.

The worst isn't avoided - just postponed. Le Pen's father received half the vote she did back in 2002. That means nationalist sentiment has doubled in just 15 years. If things go the way they are (which they will under Macron) we should expect a nationalist landslide in about a decade.

JMLP had a different game to play. Since, MLP spent years softening the FN image. Then wars and terrorism striked. Not long ago it was given that considering the context she would win. My opinion is that the 34% is peak nationalism and people will go back to normal parties.
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