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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#371

Post by nisa »

arekkas wrote: post #367
efuquen wrote: post #336

I'm pretty disappointed by some of the comments here. Because Turks voted him in that makes Erdogan's autocratic rule OK? There is no free press, hundreds of thousands that have had any association with opposition groups have been jailed, the referendum vote has been widely discredited as fraudulent. Hitler was voted into office too, I guess that just ended up being the German's problem? Democracy doesn't die without…

On a side note, Hitler was not elected into office but came in second in the election for "Reichskanzler". The NSDAP came out strongest party with 33,1%. Politicians at that time thought they could tame him if he becomes part of a coalition. They guessed wrong and he assumed full power. If you play the Hitler card at least get it right.

> If you play the Hitler card at least get it right.

NPD is a German right wing party that was founded 1964 and is nothing like the NSDAP that you meant.

Fun fact: NPD was not forbidden in Germany due to too much involvement of the Verfassungsschutz (German secret service for everything inside Germany) - they paid so much money to informants on the extreme right that they managed to build solid structures in large parts of the country.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#372

Post by zachkatz »

agumonkey wrote: post #178
usrusr wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like societies just have a MTBF of 50 years and after that war acts as a reset button. Exactly my thoughts. Now how could we replace overreliance on unrealistic uptime goals with scheduled maintenance?

Sure, but what we need right now IMO, is calming shock among populations to reduce pressure/heat/tension all over. Then we can start exchanging peacefully and efficiently, and discuss alternatives. We need to slow down the boat.

A big solar flare might do the trick.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#373

Post by kleiba »

arekkas wrote: post #367
efuquen wrote: post #336

I'm pretty disappointed by some of the comments here. Because Turks voted him in that makes Erdogan's autocratic rule OK? There is no free press, hundreds of thousands that have had any association with opposition groups have been jailed, the referendum vote has been widely discredited as fraudulent. Hitler was voted into office too, I guess that just ended up being the German's problem? Democracy doesn't die without…

On a side note, Hitler was not elected into office but came in second in the election for "Reichskanzler". The NSDAP came out strongest party with 33,1%. Politicians at that time thought they could tame him if he becomes part of a coalition. They guessed wrong and he assumed full power. If you play the Hitler card at least get it right.

Some further explanation:

In the Weimar Republic (the German state between the two worlds wars) the Reichskanzler (head of government) was not elected directly by the people. Instead, people voted for parties. The head of state was the President, and it was him who appointed the Reichskanzler.

In January 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Reichskanzler of Germany.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#374

Post by arekkas »

nisa wrote: post #371
arekkas wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a side note, Hitler was not elected into office but came in second in the election for "Reichskanzler". The NSDAP came out strongest party with 33,1%. Politicians at that time thought they could tame him if he becomes part of a coalition. They guessed wrong and he assumed full power. If you play the Hitler card at least get it right.

> If you play the Hitler card at least get it right. NPD is a German right wing party that was founded 1964 and is nothing like the NSDAP that you meant. Fun fact: NPD was not forbidden in Germany due to too much involvement of the Verfassungsschutz (German secret service for everything inside Germany) - they paid so much money to informants on the extreme right that they managed to build solid structures in large pa…

Oh, sorry, mixed that up. Same breed :D Almost typed AfD

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#375

Post by richard_shelton »

bad_user wrote: post #359
richard_shelton wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I can understand your wondering (I'm a Russian too). When I hear about the waves of Russian propaganda all around the globe I can't stop to ask myself a question: "how we become so powerful?". I'm afraid that nowadays some people tend to call any opposite opinion in their countries as a Russian propaganda. And I can understand that with a lack of good opposition/alternative media people start to read Russia Toda…

> On a serious note, I think that the only way to fight with the streams of fakes (regardless the country) is a restriction of anonymity on the Internet. Please stop suggesting that. There's zero evidence that removing anonymity works and in that process we lose our online privacy. And I think anonymity is precisely what we need to preserve freedom. Also people are simply jackasses, real names or not. If you don't be…

Don't give me wrong, I'm not protecting this idea. But I don't like some alternatives either, like banning the access to "enemy media". And it's more shameful when some democratic country doing it.

I think, the main problem is that Internet was not designed for the masses originally. In 90s you could find there mostly scientists, programmers, hackers, writers etc. Here, in Russia, everything was concenrated in Fidonet and we had our own Eternal September [1] (2000-...) when dial-up access become cheaper. So, what to do now? To be honest, I don't know. I'm not promoting segregation either. I think it's pointless to make a modern version of Usenet/Fidonet/... for closed groups of like-minded people.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#376

Post by rumcajz »

nebabyte wrote: post #170
someguu wrote: post #4

Governments yield too much power, meanwhile citizens keep funding said governments with ridiculously high taxes. Trying to fix governments is counterproductive, just need to decentralize things imho.

Decentralization just leads to non-agreed-upon authorities taking power. There will always be a monkey or monkeys with bigger or more sticks than you, and you'll always have something they can use more of. Until such a time that you have nothing left and are just a blight on the land they could be using for something else. There's a reason unorganized societies always collapse into trying to organize themselves.

You are conflating term "decentralized" with term "unorganized". Switzerland is both highly decentralized and highly organized.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#377

Post by fapjacks »

dmitrygr wrote: post #339
fapjacks wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to give you one answer, at least in the United States, a not insignificant number of people read or watch RT.com, and -- this is really terrible, but it's true -- they aren't aware that "RT" stands for "Russia Today" and is basically a pro-Russian news outlet. I'm not sure how you folks view Russia Today, but at least in the United States, people that know that "RT" == "Russia Today" consider it very pro-Russian…

I read Russian, French, and English language news from as many sources as I can find to try and get a relatively good idea of what actually happens in the world, and if you want to call out bias, try nbc before you talk about rt. Rt's reporting is closer to the reality almost every time and they much less commonly bury stories unfavourable to a certain united States party specifically.

So, I'm just talking about RT here. Obviously, it's not the only place in the world with bias. I didn't include my own RT consumption habits in the paragraph above because it's not about me, it's about RT, and how a pretty large group of Americans view it.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#378

Post by vasachi »

Strom wrote: post #256
azangru wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a Russian, I am naturally very curious about this idea of the Russian propaganda getting a stronger and stronger influence over the minds of people in other countries. Could you kindly elaborate on the following issues that mystify me: - Where do people get the Russian news and why do they care about what Russia has to say? I mean, I don't follow Polish news (or French news, or German news, etc.); so why would…

In the case of the Baltics, it's not so much the natives that are under the increasing propaganda. [1] It's the Russians who were transported here during the various occupations by the empire & soviets. These people weren't kicked out after the collapse of the union, but most of them have never been interested in the local culture. They haven't learned the language [2], aren't interested in going back to Russia even…

Well, thank you very much for not kicking them out! Especially those, who were "transported" during Russian Empire times. So very kind of you :)

Not to start a debate, but why would they want to integrate into a culture that quite explicitly hates them?

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#379

Post by fapjacks »

azangru wrote: post #197
fapjacks wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to give you one answer, at least in the United States, a not insignificant number of people read or watch RT.com, and -- this is really terrible, but it's true -- they aren't aware that "RT" stands for "Russia Today" and is basically a pro-Russian news outlet. I'm not sure how you folks view Russia Today, but at least in the United States, people that know that "RT" == "Russia Today" consider it very pro-Russian…

I must confess that I too watch RT sometimes. I was initially drawn to them by the total openness of their broadcasting — I could go to their website and either watch RT America live or watch recordings of any of their major programs. I have never seen other networks do so (perhaps with the exception of Bloomberg) — and I looked at CNN, Fox, and BBC at least. So at least for this RT deserves some credit. Now, having…

Watching competing sources of propaganda is extremely interesting and entertaining, for sure.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#380

Post by mikeash »

kleiba wrote: post #373
arekkas wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a side note, Hitler was not elected into office but came in second in the election for "Reichskanzler". The NSDAP came out strongest party with 33,1%. Politicians at that time thought they could tame him if he becomes part of a coalition. They guessed wrong and he assumed full power. If you play the Hitler card at least get it right.

Some further explanation: In the Weimar Republic (the German state between the two worlds wars) the Reichskanzler (head of government) was not elected directly by the people. Instead, people voted for parties. The head of state was the President, and it was him who appointed the Reichskanzler. In January 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Reichskanzler of Germany.

And that post had very little power. Hitler more or less became an absolute dictator with the passage of the Enabling Act a few months later. Getting that act through parliament involved arresting a bunch of opposition members and intimidating the rest using armed men, so it really wasn't a democratic process.
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