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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#101

Post by jerheinze »

vldx wrote: post #75
ykler wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what the "anomalies" this site detects in Denmark, Finland, and France represent, but the site itself says that they don't necessarily represent censorship and that it has only confirmed censorship in the following 12 countries: Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, India, Indonesia, Greece, Sudan, Belgium, Cyprus and Korea.

I don't think this list is complete. Qatar comes to my mind, where while being there recently, I've had multiple instances where given sites were blocked - i.e. redirect to censor.qa and passing unique query parameters along w/ your IP address.

They're basing their results on measurements that anyone can make, if there are very few people who do these measurements in a certain country then most probably no censorship case may come.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#102

Post by kakamba »

candiodari wrote: post #56
kakamba wrote: post #22

As suggested by others, it's a court order. Turkish officials demanded a few things from wikipedia. The main item was to remove all content where Turkey is shown supporting ISIS, but they didn't receive a response, and the repercussion was blocking access nationwide.

In case anyone doesn't know, Erdogan is enriching himself and his family by having Daesh/ISIS/Islamic state deliver oil to him at bargain prices and selling it, mostly within Turkey: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/wikileak... (and Google for it, there is a lot of proof of this) So let's stop pretending that this is done due to justice or even legal "right". This is being done to hide the crimes o…

I wasn't defending what happened, was rather reporting their reasoning for the curious. In Turkey justice has become synonymous with Erdogan's and his party's interests unfortunately.

They prey on the less educated, and banning a major source of knowledge seems like a very smart move by them.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#103

Post by agumonkey »

gkya wrote: post #25
agumonkey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody reading this, I'd take any suggestion about such social organisation / (a)political structures.

Structures are political, politics rise naturally where human interactions (especially indirect interactions) exist. The question is how to make sure that politics are based upon and executed according to facts and principals like plurality, equal rights to human dignity and mutual respect. It's sort of obvious today that democracy as we have it is not workin like that, and that big structures like countries are hard…

Exactly. On HN I expect people to guess that the current structures aren't "scalable" (sorry). So maybe a nice deep tweak to trim the fat, reduce height, simplify energy currents to avoid corruption, bureaucracy, endless bipolar swings ..

We have the technology we can rebuild it. (actually I think the solution is lo-tech.. basically prolonged discussions, hard, but not impossible)

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#104

Post by cryptarch »

thinknot wrote: post #49

>People in the West need to wake up and do their due diligence on Erdogan's regime. There's some seriously scary stuff happening because of this guy. Honest question, why should the west care about every single problem that happens anywhere in the world? Why should we spend billions in wars, shed lots of our own blood, etc? Haven't we had enough of that?

In the case of western Europe, we should care because we don't have internal OR external border controls, and Turkey is a neighboring country with a lot of refugees to dump on us.

I wish I understood why there isn't a move to reinstate border checks in the Schengen area.

It seems ludicrous to me to keep internal borders open when it is clear that the external borders have failed.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#105

Post by fapjacks »

azangru wrote: post #65
agsamek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently. Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies…

Being a Russian, I am naturally very curious about this idea of the Russian propaganda getting a stronger and stronger influence over the minds of people in other countries. Could you kindly elaborate on the following issues that mystify me: - Where do people get the Russian news and why do they care about what Russia has to say? I mean, I don't follow Polish news (or French news, or German news, etc.); so why would…

Just to give you one answer, at least in the United States, a not insignificant number of people read or watch RT.com, and -- this is really terrible, but it's true -- they aren't aware that "RT" stands for "Russia Today" and is basically a pro-Russian news outlet. I'm not sure how you folks view Russia Today, but at least in the United States, people that know that "RT" == "Russia Today" consider it very pro-Russian, almost propaganda. People that don't know that it's a Russian news source generally just consider RT like most other news sources in the United States. I've got friends on Facebook that post RT links like they post CNN links or something and they're completely unaware of its origin.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#106

Post by mkempe »

maehwasu wrote: post #34

To what degree is Erdogan's regime a problem of not enough democracy, as opposed to a fundamental problem with democracy itself? (Where democracy = 51% wins)

Democracy is not a method of protection for individual rights, on the contrary. Limited government is.

Madison discusses the issue in The Federalist Papers No. 10 [1].

[1] http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed10.asp

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#107

Post by nebabyte »

thinknot wrote: post #49

>People in the West need to wake up and do their due diligence on Erdogan's regime. There's some seriously scary stuff happening because of this guy. Honest question, why should the west care about every single problem that happens anywhere in the world? Why should we spend billions in wars, shed lots of our own blood, etc? Haven't we had enough of that?

"The West" is not exclusively the US. Plenty of countries pay attention to global politics without "spending billions of dollars fighting wars, shedding lots of their own blood", it's not fair to lump them in with us.

It is possible to care and act WITHOUT overcommitting. Or at least, it is for countries who do not have a schizophrenic model wherein both sides are pushing against each other as hard as they can and so overcommit to everything including an astronomical defense budget.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#108

Post by hd4 »

imaginenore wrote: post #88
hd4 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that because they're Muslim but not really Islamic and very western that it's somehow not desirable for them to become more Islamic. How about you let them decide what's good for themselves? Why is it scary just because it's Islamic? I detect racist undertones in your post. And I don't think much of Erdogan at all, and how he thinks censorship is cool. But you don't get to start deciding what'…

Islam is not a race, it's a religion, so he is not racist at all in his comment. You don't choose the color of your skin, but you have a choice which religion to follow, or not follow any.

It's less about Islam being a race and more about how Manifest Destiny is showing its ugly face once more.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#109

Post by [deleted] »

imaginenore wrote: post #88
hd4 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that because they're Muslim but not really Islamic and very western that it's somehow not desirable for them to become more Islamic. How about you let them decide what's good for themselves? Why is it scary just because it's Islamic? I detect racist undertones in your post. And I don't think much of Erdogan at all, and how he thinks censorship is cool. But you don't get to start deciding what'…

Islam is not a race, it's a religion, so he is not racist at all in his comment. You don't choose the color of your skin, but you have a choice which religion to follow, or not follow any.

[deleted]

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#110

Post by [deleted] »

imaginenore wrote: post #88
hd4 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that because they're Muslim but not really Islamic and very western that it's somehow not desirable for them to become more Islamic. How about you let them decide what's good for themselves? Why is it scary just because it's Islamic? I detect racist undertones in your post. And I don't think much of Erdogan at all, and how he thinks censorship is cool. But you don't get to start deciding what'…

Islam is not a race, it's a religion, so he is not racist at all in his comment. You don't choose the color of your skin, but you have a choice which religion to follow, or not follow any.

[deleted]
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