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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#61

Post by lubonay »

agsamek wrote: post #37
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

I think 2016 will go down as the high water mark for a global Internet. I see a lot of countries looking at the success of China in keeping political control, and the failure of Egypt, Tunisia, etc where the open Internet was used to overthrow the regime and deciding that allowing an open, free internet is not in their best interests. If you think that Western, liberal democracies are exempt from this, just look at t…

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently. Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies…

Weird, Bulgaria is also seemingly being targeted by systematic Russian propaganda and fake news via news sites with anonymous authors and no citations, and via fake profiles on social media sites that like, share and comment on said sites.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#62

Post by hd4 »

beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

You seem to be implying that because they're Muslim but not really Islamic and very western that it's somehow not desirable for them to become more Islamic. How about you let them decide what's good for themselves? Why is it scary just because it's Islamic? I detect racist undertones in your post. And I don't think much of Erdogan at all, and how he thinks censorship is cool. But you don't get to start deciding what's good for a nation unless you're happy for others to decide what's good for Canada too.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#63

Post by forvelin »

Curnee wrote: post #43
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

I play video games from a young Turkish woman. She goes to gigs, nightclubs, drinks and socialises. She hits on guys and they hit on her. She is indistinguishable from any western 20something. I was on a voice call with her the night of the supposed coup, and listened to her and her family angrily lemmenting the administration. It seemed even on the night of they knew something was fishy. She lives in Istanbul, and i…

There is a 49% in Turkey, and then there is 51%.

51 won and this happened.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#64

Post by candiodari »

throwaway290417 wrote: post #51
StavrosK wrote: post #23

I'm assuming Tor circumvents the ban, correct? I'm going to tell all my Turkish friends to install Tor and signal, and be sad that Turkey has reached this point.

AFAIK, Tor is blockable because the list of relays is public, and accesses may invite scrutiny from the authorities. This is a dictator who's reportedly already imprisoned thousands of common people. What I do is buy inexpensive server time from common providers in US or Europe, run a SOCKS tunnel over ssh to that server, and bypass blocks. It'll appear to be like any other SSH access. If I need to post something to…

Reportedly ? Turkey has published exactly how many they arrested. The counter currently stands on over 100000 people that have at least been fired. At least 30000 have been arrested and imprisoned.

And Diyanet is back. If you don't know. The Ottoman empire, Turkey's predecessor, felt the need for iron control over mosques. So anyone who attempted to have mosque without "official curriculum", even a tiny personal one, in Ottoman territory would quickly find themselves arrested. And to drive home how serious they were: it is said that nobody got arrested twice for this. Nobody.

Now Erdogan is famous for directly threatening European leaders for not doing the same. Essentially, he demands to see European non-Diyanet mosques attacked if any Turk goes to them, and there are reports of kidnappings and disappearances (NOT in Turkey, in Europe).

Additionally a whole bunch of Islamic schools (Gulen-movement schools) have been closed and again there are threats against foreign governments not doing the same.

Censorship is the least part of this. Sad part is, much of Turkey appears to agree with these actions.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#65

Post by azangru »

agsamek wrote: post #37
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

I think 2016 will go down as the high water mark for a global Internet. I see a lot of countries looking at the success of China in keeping political control, and the failure of Egypt, Tunisia, etc where the open Internet was used to overthrow the regime and deciding that allowing an open, free internet is not in their best interests. If you think that Western, liberal democracies are exempt from this, just look at t…

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently. Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies…

Being a Russian, I am naturally very curious about this idea of the Russian propaganda getting a stronger and stronger influence over the minds of people in other countries. Could you kindly elaborate on the following issues that mystify me:

- Where do people get the Russian news and why do they care about what Russia has to say? I mean, I don't follow Polish news (or French news, or German news, etc.); so why would people get their information from the Russian outlets?

- You said that the Russian news/comments are factually wrong. What do you use as a reference (which sources would give you factually correct information and how do you verify that it is factually correct)?

Those are honest questions; I am not defending the Russian outlets in any way - I am just curious about how people perceive different news media

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#66

Post by azangru »

agsamek wrote: post #37
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

I think 2016 will go down as the high water mark for a global Internet. I see a lot of countries looking at the success of China in keeping political control, and the failure of Egypt, Tunisia, etc where the open Internet was used to overthrow the regime and deciding that allowing an open, free internet is not in their best interests. If you think that Western, liberal democracies are exempt from this, just look at t…

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently. Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies…

Being a Russian, I am naturally very curious about this idea of the Russian propaganda getting a stronger and stronger influence over the minds of people in other countries. Could you kindly elaborate on the following issues that mystify me:

- Where do people get the Russian news and why do they care about what Russia has to say? I mean, I don't follow Polish news (or French news, or German news, etc.); so why would people get their information from the Russian outlets?

- You said that the Russian news/comments are factually wrong. What do you use as a reference (which sources would give you factually correct information and how do you verify that it is factually correct)?

Those are honest questions; I am not defending the Russian outlets in any way - I am just curious about how people perceive different news media

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#67

Post by sorenjan »

beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

Plenty of people care, but what are we supposed to do about it? Here in Europe Erdogan makes the headlines from time to time, right before the referendum he made several speeches where he called the politicians of multiple countries "descendants of nazis" and similar. Everybody knows that he cares more about suppressing the Kurds than ISIS. He holds Europe hostage by threatening to release large amounts of refugees into Europe, not dissimilar to what Qaddafi did. We've been hearing about the increasing religiosity pretty much since he took office.

It's one more example of a common pattern where the rural and the urban population disagrees, due to globalization, increased liberal ideas in cities, and a switch from manufacturing to service jobs. It seems to be universal that the rural population is more religious, less prepared for a global economy, and in general more backwards, yearning for times that aren't here anymore.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#68

Post by jgaa »

someguu wrote: post #4

Governments yield too much power, meanwhile citizens keep funding said governments with ridiculously high taxes. Trying to fix governments is counterproductive, just need to decentralize things imho.

> Governments yield too much power, meanwhile citizens keep funding said governments with ridiculously high taxes.

Good point. In my opinion, paying taxes is the most immoral thing a person can do.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#69

Post by louithethrid »

Consider if you will - a diffrent approach to infrastructure altogether. There are no cables, no centralized Servers - just wifi capable devices.

How does it route, i hear you asking? It routes by likelihood of connection to social plankton. Social plankton is every group your device ever connects to- and is constituted by those members of the group, which who can gather the most "Yes"-votes about theire prediction, of the behaviour of the group. Take a bus filled with people driving to work. They always constitute from slightly diffrent devices, but the time is always the same, the amount of devices is always the same- and there is always that one deciding device - belonging to the social plankton "transportation-company" without the plankton would never come together.

Now lets take the greatest possible counter example: A convention of bus drivers, riding on a bus to the first convention of its kind. They would debate alot, and agree upon it beeing a bus- but neither could secure a majority - which bus it is. None of the driving by social plankton - called houses and cars, is able to identify the bus of busses, thus a new social plankton class is created.

How does a adress in this add-hoc net look like? It consists of a Unique identifier, wrapped into layers of social plankton, sorted by likelihood. The social organism city is likely to know the social organism university within. The key ingredient is, that inner-plankton, can be encrypted and decrypted only after arrival at the outter plankton.

So this allows for -extremely slow, in extremely big burst- communication to happen. Without any IP-Provider or Infrastructure Controll authority having a hand on it.

Even better, it allows for Meta-Organisms to host services. Lets say, i have a shard of Wikipedia on my cellphone, and im part of the opt-in plankton "FreeSociety", any request to a wikipedia server, that bounces with no return off the web, could bounce back through the social organisms internal, until it reaches me, gets a package returned, and the web is down but the gate is up.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#70

Post by sverhagen »

jerheinze wrote: post #58
ykler wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what the "anomalies" this site detects in Denmark, Finland, and France represent, but the site itself says that they don't necessarily represent censorship and that it has only confirmed censorship in the following 12 countries: Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, India, Indonesia, Greece, Sudan, Belgium, Cyprus and Korea.

The map has "Confirmed censorship cases" and Denmark, Finland and France, ... all fit there. For Denmark for example: https://explorer.ooni.torproject.org/country/DK They're blocking http://thepiratebay.org , that's straight up censorship.

The latter being censorship is really an opinion rather than undisputed, fact, or a guaranteed majority opinion.
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