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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#231

Post by lottin »

timthelion wrote: post #50
ykler wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what the "anomalies" this site detects in Denmark, Finland, and France represent, but the site itself says that they don't necessarily represent censorship and that it has only confirmed censorship in the following 12 countries: Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, India, Indonesia, Greece, Sudan, Belgium, Cyprus and Korea.

Just FYI, Youtube is heavilly sensored in the Czech Republic (we have very strong laws against political extremism, like jail time for extreme right wing speech..). But I don't know of any actual domains that are blocked. The government doesn't need a great firewall to censor. They can simply slap a 2 year jail sentence on anyone who shares a right wing video and that's enough to get youtube to censor itself. Edit: I…

The UK, France, Spain and possibly others have laws against "glorifying terrorism". In Germany, Nazi symbols and propaganda are banned. I don't necessarily agree with these laws, but this is quite different from blocking the entire Wikipedia.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#232

Post by pps43 »

sorenjan wrote: post #67
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

Plenty of people care, but what are we supposed to do about it? Here in Europe Erdogan makes the headlines from time to time, right before the referendum he made several speeches where he called the politicians of multiple countries "descendants of nazis" and similar. Everybody knows that he cares more about suppressing the Kurds than ISIS. He holds Europe hostage by threatening to release large amounts of refugees i…

> what are we supposed to do about it?

Kick Turkey out of NATO first. If things get worse, impose sanctions.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#233

Post by ptaipale »

thinknot wrote: post #49

>People in the West need to wake up and do their due diligence on Erdogan's regime. There's some seriously scary stuff happening because of this guy. Honest question, why should the west care about every single problem that happens anywhere in the world? Why should we spend billions in wars, shed lots of our own blood, etc? Haven't we had enough of that?

> Honest question, why should the west care about every single problem that happens anywhere in the world?

In this case, West being West Europe:

Because European Union decided to build a federal union which has freedom of movement inside, and no border controls on the outside. What happens in Turkey is directly impacting the security, safety and economy of all Europeans (except the British, who were lectured on their selfishness for not joining the Schengen area).

EU's border control was outsourced to Turkey. So, thank Jean-Claude Juncker, Barroso, Prodi, Santer.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#234

Post by ptaipale »

ivanbakel wrote: post #157
madeofpalk wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Call me naive, but is this actually a problem? I'm fairly secular and don't know much about how 'Muslim states' operate, but if they're producing alcohol, for it's population who drinks and and doesn't care, what is the actual problem here? Shoul…

The point is that there's no problem at all. The standard for many Islamic countries to introduce parts of Islamic law as state law, such as the forbidding of alcohol or the veiling of women. By contrast, Turkey is much more secular in its government.

Unfortunately, this secular government is precisely what Erdogan is eroding.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#235

Post by enraged_camel »

briandear wrote: post #86
sverhagen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read through a few definitions of the word "censorship", just now, and I don't think any of them make this particular distinction.

There is a distinction between open government and censorship. Not releasing information is different than banning people from sharing information. It's related, but definitely not the same as censorship.

>>Not releasing information is different than banning people from sharing information.

Lying by omission is still lying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#236

Post by epmaybe »

jerheinze wrote: post #97
sverhagen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link says: blocking access due to copyright issues. Respectfully, I don't think you're doing justice to the Turkish freedom of speech issue of Wikipedia being blocked by bringing up The Pirate Bay.

> That link says: blocking access due to copyright issues. Respectfully, I don't think you're doing justice to the Turkish freedom of speech issue of Wikipedia being blocked by bringing up The Pirate Bay. Can we both agree that both of these things shouldn't happen and ThePirateBay and Wikipedia shouldn't be censored by any country?

Sure, but there's a time and a place, if you know what I mean. One directly undermines access to information, whereas another has to do with copyright law.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#237

Post by mk89 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #228
mk89 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the Turks I have had contact with in Germany are racist against Germans (they are jealous of the lifestyle, or for whatever other reason). The reason they are against asylum seekers may be simpler as it seems: they know that the situation was going to create troubles and escalate, and therefore it will be blamed on the dark ones (the focus is on them). Can you distinguish a Turkish from a Syrian, for example?…

My experience is from the time before the refugee crisis. At that time asylum seekers were mainly from Africa.

Yeah, which kind of fits the description.

I mean, I do understand their concerns, which is really sad...

Many dark foreigners have the same point of view. In such white countries, more dark foreigners mean more chance of troubles for them. Dark, slightly dark, black, etc, they all belong in one category: dark foreigners. Even Indians, who do not have absolutely anything in common with Africans, for example, still belong to the same category.

If an Indian does something bad, dark people will suffer from it.

Same for social security: they'll have less, considering that many (poor) foreigners will come, and they may have to share the resources.

It's all about survival...

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#238

Post by thedevil »

azangru wrote: post #197
fapjacks wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to give you one answer, at least in the United States, a not insignificant number of people read or watch RT.com, and -- this is really terrible, but it's true -- they aren't aware that "RT" stands for "Russia Today" and is basically a pro-Russian news outlet. I'm not sure how you folks view Russia Today, but at least in the United States, people that know that "RT" == "Russia Today" consider it very pro-Russian…

I must confess that I too watch RT sometimes. I was initially drawn to them by the total openness of their broadcasting — I could go to their website and either watch RT America live or watch recordings of any of their major programs. I have never seen other networks do so (perhaps with the exception of Bloomberg) — and I looked at CNN, Fox, and BBC at least. So at least for this RT deserves some credit. Now, having…

> what it is that ostensibly makes RT so different from other media networks

1) Different kinds of propaganda. Fox, CNN, MSNBC are businesses that reflect the biases of audience, owners, employees, etc. RT bias is support of the Kremlin.

2) Different levels of commitment. Fox, MSNBC, CNN are businesses pursuing their own interest. Their purpose is making money. RT was set up purely for propaganda. It's purpose is spreading propaganda. The "alternative news" is merely a method to deliver the propaganda.

Fox opposed Trump but then flipped to suit their interest. RT will never oppose Putin.

If Putin decided he wanted to genocide Jews (a totally unrealistic example just to illustrate the point), RT would come up with a reason why it's unavoidable, justified, and the US's fault anyway. If Trump came up with the same idea, even Fox news would probably oppose it.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#239

Post by mk89 »

How come that all dictators have one thing in common?

They don't understand that the more you forbid certain things, the more people are willing to fight for it.

They should do exactly like in the West: give us the feeling we are free, while a few companies decide what we have to do, what we have to wear, what we have to eat :)

This way, your economy flourishes, you are not perceived as a dictator, and neighbor countries don't want to invade you because of human rights :D

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#240

Post by itburnslikeice »

forvelin wrote: post #13
itburnslikeice wrote: post #5

Turkey feels like an "North Korea" movie and we watch the "making of" part -- lmao

Is this reddit or what, how come you find such thing entertaining which literally kills people?

more drama please, til people can die without access to Wikipedia
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