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Goodbye Amazon

princeton-audio.com

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Re: Goodbye Amazon

#111

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

colmvp wrote: post #79
ronnier wrote: post #68

> But it was also born as a reaction against the cheap, mass-produced audio products that litter the marketplace today. We are entering a world where the cheapest mass-produced items are just about as good as the high end versions. Products are plateauing in many ways which means the cheap versions catch up. Say on a scale of 1-10, where 1 is the worst product ever, and 10 is the best you could ever imagine. Over the…

Yeah I find it annoying when high end producers complain about cheap alternatives. I'd be willing to bet the average person probably couldn't tell the difference in audio quality between a pair of sub $50 Logitech speakers and these speakers which cost $335.00 each. Or at least, it wouldn't be worth the extra $620 for most people. I'm not suggesting there isn't a difference (I've bought higher end headphones and spea…

Doesn't this apply to literally everything? Cheap programmers v/s expensive programmers, cheap photographers v/s expensive photographers, etc.

When it's their own field, people suddenly become very attached to the nuances and about the additional value they can provide which the cheap counterpart does not.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#112

Post by icc97 »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #104
icc97 wrote: post #91

There seems to be a lot of negativity about this. They Site-1 product they make looks beautiful and is made in the US. I really applaud them for doing this and I wish more companies would. Making beautiful long lasting products. If you've got a beautiful casing to the speakers you can upgrade internal components and that looks like one of the things they offer. If nothing else then hopefully this post will prevent ot…

The negativity is born of knowing something about speaker design. Their product is massively overpriced for what it is. "Tonewoods" are the literaly opposite of what you want in a material for speaker cabinets. For as much time as they spend bashing on cheap speakers from china, if you did a side by side comparison of their product vs other options at the same price point, you'll quickly discover the limitations of a…

I assume you're talking about products in the same price range that were made in China?

You're trading quality of components for quality of workmanship.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#113

Post by cthalupa »

icc97 wrote: post #99
cthalupa wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an audio enthusiast who spends far too much money on speakers and other gear: This isn't the same. The actual transducers and gear in these things is very low-end. Their gimmick seems to be the "tonewoods", which when you take into account the level of electronics in these is just silly. It's nearly cable riser levels of snake oil. Couple that with the fact that this is streamed over bluetooth (They mention using…

You can connect via WiFi too [0] [0]: https://youtu.be/zR-LJpLn3SU?t=40s

Ah, good catch, and I stand corrected.

Doesn't resolve the amp and transducer themselves being mediocre, however :(

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#114

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

icc97 wrote: post #112
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negativity is born of knowing something about speaker design. Their product is massively overpriced for what it is. "Tonewoods" are the literaly opposite of what you want in a material for speaker cabinets. For as much time as they spend bashing on cheap speakers from china, if you did a side by side comparison of their product vs other options at the same price point, you'll quickly discover the limitations of a…

I assume you're talking about products in the same price range that were made in China? You're trading quality of components for quality of workmanship.

> I assume you're talking about products in the same price range that were made in China?

Doesn't have to be China, any reasonably competent product will utterly embarrass PA's speakers. There's no avoiding physics, and a 3" full range cannot be more than it is, even if you charge $300+ for it.

If you like small single driver speakers check out Mark Audio. They're an example of the sort of driver PA should be using if they actually gave a crap about sound quality.

> You're trading quality of components for quality of workmanship

There is no meaningful workmanship involved. My grandfather was a luthier. I've designed and built speakers. This is a massively overpriced product being marketed via rhetoric that is directly opposed to everything we know from actual, formal, research.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#115

Post by abandonliberty »

cthalupa wrote: post #87
ctvo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you do a breakdown for a MacBook Pro for me. I paid over 3k for the latest one. I'd love to know how much all the parts cost sans casing and integration.

As an audio enthusiast who spends far too much money on speakers and other gear: This isn't the same. The actual transducers and gear in these things is very low-end. Their gimmick seems to be the "tonewoods", which when you take into account the level of electronics in these is just silly. It's nearly cable riser levels of snake oil. Couple that with the fact that this is streamed over bluetooth (They mention using…

Hey at least they're not Monster :D

Just wondering, how much more would they have to spend to provide electronics worthy of their designs and money spent on wood and skilled US labor? I'm guessing it's currently Of course, in the audio industry style trumps substance almost every time. Why bother if most of your consumers can't tell the difference?

Let's be honest here. These are mostly going to play bluetooth-transmitted audio from a modern low-fi turntable.

I suspect they're pretty good at that. And they look nice.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#116

Post by accountyaccount »

ohyeshedid wrote: post #78
accountyaccount wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon doesn't allow companies to sell their product for a higher price on Amazon than on their own site (or elsewhere). This is what I assume they're referring to. Obviously Amazon wants to push sales on Amazon, but it kind of sucks as a company when you feel like you have to sell your product on Amazon to get the exposure of your competition... but then doing so generally means a cut in your profits because you can…

>Amazon doesn't allow companies to sell their product for a >higher price on Amazon than on their own site (or elsewhere). Well, yeah. They don't want you upping the Amazon price to balance out their revshare cut while simultaneously using Amazon as an advertising platform/traffic funnel.

Sure, but it is a little unusual.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#117

Post by lambdasquirrel »

flubert wrote: post #71
jasode wrote: post #4

>Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, [...] If all goes smoothly, this process takes about six weeks. >Amazon relentlessly pushed us to accept lead-times that were typically only four days, and sometimes demanded fulfillment of orders in as little as 24 hours--including delivery. Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week c…

>Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week custom-made-to-order products. Maybe there's another well-known retail site that caters to that type of vendor but it certainly isn't Amazon (or Walmart). But there is Amazon Handmade (which is supposed to be the Amazon Etsy): https://services.amazon.com/handmade/handmade.html ...and Amazon Custom: https://services.amazon.com/custom.html ..and Amaz…

There's also Etsy.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#118

Post by abandonliberty »

hannob wrote: post #7

When I read sentences like this: "We steadfastly refuse to be purveyors of cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic speakers made on an assembly line in China that contribute nothing of value to the lives of our customers or the town we call home." I'm always amazed how much subtle racism seems to be acceptable when it comes to talking about China. This sentence contains so many hidden assumptions, e.g. "product fro…

In addition to all the other great responses you have received, I would add that many consumers identify with a "person in our home town earning money" since they live in a town and need to earn money. Or end up like Detroit.

Racism blinds people. So does anti-racism.

By providing a simple derogatory label one avoids the need to think and instead imposes their prejudice upon the world - ultimately doing the very thing they are decrying. Ironic. Both ignorant bullies lacking self-awareness, compassion, and empathy, but on opposite sides. If only they realized how much they have in common.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#119

Post by zipwitch »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #100
theossuary wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a customer of Amazon I think Amazon should definitely be an appropriate distribution platform for anything. They have digital downloads, monthly subscripts, extremely large items; I don't think it's unreasonable to allow items with long fulfillment times (especially items handcrafted based on customer request). I've been very fed up with Amazon's selection, the number of scams and reduced quality on Amazon has see…

I cannot describe how frustrating it is to get a completely counterfeit product off amazon or to have to carefully comb through reviews to make sure a previously great product hasn't been replaced with an inferior one differing from the description and photos - and I doubt I have to, since it happens to everyone who uses amazon regularly now. I too am feeling fed up, and it's getting to the point where it's now conve…

Wish I could award more points to this comment. After getting a counterfeit power bank recently, I realized that the due diligence I was going to need to do when buying some small additions and replacements to my camping gear was eating so much time it was easier to just go to the store, nvm the hour+ round trip and slightly higher prices.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#120

Post by petra »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #101
petra wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think down this path, that craftmanship needs a very fast route to market, and it's going to be a very big industry - with the capitalistic logic, you end up with solutions like drone transport, automated machines that create custom things fast, and robots/ai to test products. And you probably also end up with manufacturing clusters doing most of the work - and not in small towns spread around, but maybe still…

I don't know about the speed. I do know that craftsmanship needs a big market (because the number of people who are willing to pay the extra cost are a subset of the whole market). I'm more interested in understanding three things; 1) A market maker that can create the visibility / confidence that allows a high touch bespoke market to exist (sort of eBay or Amazon or Alibaba for craft people. I thought this might be…

>> a 'factory on demand' of arbitrary size

I can imagine a versatile manufacturing technology that has 0 setup costs(maybe 3d printing), and in the digital world it should be possible to create the same things from different people.

But even with those technologies, centralization/clustering has some advantage: buying in bulk, cheaper labor, closeness to distribution, access to talent - and especially access to better technology.

But what are the advantages of the SmallVille entrepreneur ? why should he invest in that business ? and how could he survive long term ?

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