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Goodbye Amazon

princeton-audio.com

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Re: Goodbye Amazon

#61

Post by Domenic_S »

intrepidlemon wrote: post #25
hannob wrote: post #7

When I read sentences like this: "We steadfastly refuse to be purveyors of cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic speakers made on an assembly line in China that contribute nothing of value to the lives of our customers or the town we call home." I'm always amazed how much subtle racism seems to be acceptable when it comes to talking about China. This sentence contains so many hidden assumptions, e.g. "product fro…

There's also the idiotic presumption that only their "lovingly handcrafted" speakers could ever provide value. Consider that their speakers are priced beyond what most people would pay and are of presumptuously higher quality than what most people would even care for. It's profoundly egotistical and makes me think that they don't quite understand the space they work in.

The psuedo-audiophile space? Sounds like they understand their space perfectly.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#62

Post by stcredzero »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #42
stcredzero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumption once applied to Made in Japan. If you go back even longer, it once even applied to things made in North America.

Yes this assumption has been applied to many "developing" countries no fully developed. This includes Japan, but also Korea (remember the reputation that Kia and Hyundai used to have? very similar to the reputations that Nissan, Honda, and Toyota used to have) and Taiwan. People forgot, but post WW2 this also applied to German engineering!

Also to the Italians. Maybe there's a pattern where a country can achieve eventual prosperity by going Fascist (Germany, Italy, Japan) ending up defeated on the wrong side of a war, then reform itself into an economy that emphasizes high value-add high-quality manufacturing?

"Make America Great Again!" Maybe Trump is onto something!

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#63

Post by adrianmonk »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #8

Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, using their preferred tonewoods, choice of hardware, as well as other unique customizations. ... The only way to meet their demands would have been to mass-produce huge volumes of speakers featuring no customizations. How is Amazon even possibly a good place to sell this kind of an item? People overwhelmingly go…

Amazon actually does sell some low-volume, high-dollar speakers. Google for "amazon premium home audio" to find it.

As an extreme example, you can even buy a $32,000 pair of KEF Blade speakers there. They have "Only 1 left in stock", but it has free Prime 2-day shipping! (They also have lots of much less extreme stuff in the $500 to $5000 price range.)

I'm not sure how they're managing it. They may have special arrangements going with the manufacturers (so that there are no penalties). Or it may be that Amazon initiated things to build out a special section of their store. Or it may just be that these items are high-end but aren't _custom_, so the manufacturer can stay ahead and keep enough stock on hand even though that's only a handful of units.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#64

Post by [deleted] »

bitL wrote: post #57
bostonpete wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Chinese goods traditionally have had a reputation of low quality. Maybe that reputation is outdated or perhaps it was never quite accurate (?), but either way I don't think it's reasonable to label a reference to that reputation as racist. Nor is wanting to build businesses that benefit your local community racist or particularly wrong.

In the 1900s, Germany was known for mass-producing cheap pieces of cr-p. In the 1960s, Japan was known for mass-producing cheap pieces of cr-p. In the 2000s, China was known for mass-producing pieces of cr-p. Do you see the pattern?

[deleted]

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#65

Post by Raknarg »

sdwisely wrote: post #38
bostonpete wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Chinese goods traditionally have had a reputation of low quality. Maybe that reputation is outdated or perhaps it was never quite accurate (?), but either way I don't think it's reasonable to label a reference to that reputation as racist. Nor is wanting to build businesses that benefit your local community racist or particularly wrong.

I'd say they're not crap because they're Chinese. Cheap is top of most peoples wish list when shopping and China can do cheap. Cheap tends to be the enemy of quality.

Would you not agree that a large proportion of cheap manufacturing comes from China?

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#66

Post by colmvp »

bostonpete wrote: post #21
hannob wrote: post #7

When I read sentences like this: "We steadfastly refuse to be purveyors of cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic speakers made on an assembly line in China that contribute nothing of value to the lives of our customers or the town we call home." I'm always amazed how much subtle racism seems to be acceptable when it comes to talking about China. This sentence contains so many hidden assumptions, e.g. "product fro…

Many Chinese goods traditionally have had a reputation of low quality. Maybe that reputation is outdated or perhaps it was never quite accurate (?), but either way I don't think it's reasonable to label a reference to that reputation as racist. Nor is wanting to build businesses that benefit your local community racist or particularly wrong.

Almost every object in my house has some sort of component made in China. The fact that I haven't had to replace any of them in years AND that it didn't cost an arm and a leg compared to being manufactured here in my local country should be testament to the output of that country.

It's like we're completely spoiled by how absurdly cheap and mostly reliable things that we use on a day to day basis.

To me, it's akin to the stereotypes of foreign professional athletes such as European basketball players or Russian hockey players. When we find the examples that validate it, it reinforces the stereotype. But then, we completely ignore the countless examples that counter it, both in terms of high quality performers from the foreign country as well as poorly performing examples produced from ones own country.

There's nothing that implicitly makes something made in Canada, or USA, or Germany that much better than if it were made in China.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#67

Post by dsr_ »

ctvo wrote: post #44
dsr_ wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it looks like they are making nice wood cabinets for cheap low-quality parts: - a "full range" 3" speaker is about $7, quantity 1. - a 20W at 10% THD class D amplifier with bluetooth input is $25, retail. (Yes, that's a terrible spec. It's what Princeton claims.) - a battery is $8 - a few dollars for a fancy knob and grille. So they are charging about $300 for their cabinets and integration of all the above…

Can you do a breakdown for a MacBook Pro for me. I paid over 3k for the latest one. I'd love to know how much all the parts cost sans casing and integration.

This speaker system has specs which make it the equivalent of putting a Raspberry Pi in a MacBook aluminum chassis.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#68

Post by ronnier »

> But it was also born as a reaction against the cheap, mass-produced audio products that litter the marketplace today.

We are entering a world where the cheapest mass-produced items are just about as good as the high end versions. Products are plateauing in many ways which means the cheap versions catch up. Say on a scale of 1-10, where 1 is the worst product ever, and 10 is the best you could ever imagine. Over the last decades we were jumping from 1, to 2, to 3... etc. Now we are at the end of the spectrum in many ways. So instead of jumping entire digits, products increment by .003 for example, and demanding higher prices. To the normal consumer, that fraction of an incremental advancement isn't worth the price.

What Princeton Audio is feeling is the sting of competition as they catch them in quality.

> We steadfastly refuse to be purveyors of cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic speakers made on an assembly line in China that contribute nothing of value to the lives of our customers or the town we call home.

That "cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic" Chinese made stuff, if you go back 100 years, has given most of us a life of unimaginable luxury.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#69

Post by ozataman »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #8

Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, using their preferred tonewoods, choice of hardware, as well as other unique customizations. ... The only way to meet their demands would have been to mass-produce huge volumes of speakers featuring no customizations. How is Amazon even possibly a good place to sell this kind of an item? People overwhelmingly go…

Well, it's really tempting and financially desirable to try and get on Amazon anyway. There are lots of consumers on Amazon with both an appetite for that kind of an artisan item and the purchasing power to go for it despite the higher lead time. So the demand side is usually a given.

Don't forget that, from the manufacturer's perspective, Amazon is not only the logistical facilitator, but also a sales channel where huge numbers of potential customers are introduced to companies they wouldn't naturally be exposed to.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#70

Post by [deleted] »

hannob wrote: post #7

When I read sentences like this: "We steadfastly refuse to be purveyors of cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic speakers made on an assembly line in China that contribute nothing of value to the lives of our customers or the town we call home." I'm always amazed how much subtle racism seems to be acceptable when it comes to talking about China. This sentence contains so many hidden assumptions, e.g. "product fro…

[deleted]
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