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Uber CEO Plays with Fire

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#51

Post by geofft »

pdog wrote: post #36

From the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing…

Near the bottom of the article:

To halt the activity, Uber engineers assigned a persistent identity to iPhones with a small piece of code, a practice called “fingerprinting.” Uber could then identify an iPhone and prevent itself from being fooled even after the device was erased of its contents.

I also interpreted "track" as "report geolocation data," but that's not what the reporter means, and honestly the reporter's meaning is more consistent with, e.g., "this website is tracking users" or "Do-Not-Track".

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#52

Post by babesh »

pdog wrote: post #36

From the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing…

I have heard that it is quite possible. Supposedly if you measure enough characteristics of the phone, the combination of such characteristics is enough to uniquely identify a phone. May be able to poll such information you measure with those measured by other apps.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#53

Post by smoyer »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #22
taude wrote: post #18

I really hope Lyft doesn't do anything to screw up, as I've uninstalled Uber and will probably never use the service again. However, I don't see myself going back to regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable. I just hope Lyft plays the game with a social conscious and makes positive decisions and continues to treat drivers well (most Lyft drivers I talk to say they like driving for Lyft way bette…

I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . If you really want to do this use public transportation .

Uber isn't really ride-sharing anymore.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#54

Post by refulgentis »

pdog wrote: post #36

From the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing…

I think they're referring to Keychain items surviving an app deletion. That quietly stopped working in a recent iOS update.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#55

Post by minimaxir »

pdog wrote: post #36

From the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing…

> "to be clear, a # of companies practice 'fingerprinting,' and it is fully breaking the App Store rules. But also very clever fraud detection."

https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/856180005977677825

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#56

Post by lisper »

zzalpha wrote: post #46
1024core wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I get it now. The author took a shortcut. Basically, they created a unique 'fingerprint' of the iPhone. It was unique enough that even if you reinstalled the app, the fingerprint would still be the same. This was done, ostensibly, to prevent people from scamming them by reinstalling the app and coming over as new users? But they already have the phone number, so I don't understand the point.

Phone numbers can be trivially changed. In the article this is in the context of fraudsters buying used phones to fake rides in China and take advantage of incentive programs to make money. So they want to track these devices as they change hands.

Phones can change ownership too, so even if you can identify the phone it is dangerous to assume that you have identified a person.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#57

Post by geofft »

_jal wrote: post #43

I've thought the guy is slimy scum for some time, but that article made something click. One consistent feature of Kalanick's tactics appears to be a proclivity for gaslighting on an industrial scale - geofencing Apple, regulators, etc. Among (many) other things, I would never trust any data sourced solely to anything under his control.

In American culture, gaslighting is a valued leadership quality. You get things done by making people think you're in control of the situation.

See, for instance, Mike Pence's behavior during the VP debate, saying with a straight face that certain things never happened that did happen (it's a very different experience watching it once you understand that gaslighting is a thing that exists), or Hillary Clinton talking approvingly of Abe Lincoln having a public and private position - duplicity is good leadership. If you want to get something done, and you have two constituencies that disagree about how to do it, go to each constituency and say that you agree with them. Anyone who thinks of calling you out on it is going to doubt their own recollection of events.

I think it's good for our culture that people are starting to question that, but it will be a very long and difficult battle.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#58

Post by bmelton »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #22
taude wrote: post #18

I really hope Lyft doesn't do anything to screw up, as I've uninstalled Uber and will probably never use the service again. However, I don't see myself going back to regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable. I just hope Lyft plays the game with a social conscious and makes positive decisions and continues to treat drivers well (most Lyft drivers I talk to say they like driving for Lyft way bette…

I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . If you really want to do this use public transportation .

> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious

I don't understand why not. I have a total of five friends who have each chosen to drive for various ridesharing companies, and in the conversations I've had with them, it seems pretty clear that none of them would be drivers if they couldn't set their own schedules, or if they were otherwise treated as actual employees.

To be fair, only one of them is driving as their main source of income; the other four are driving to supplement their day jobs for side money. The flexible schedule is crucial to that. The fifth prefers flexible scheduling as well. Though he might otherwise be considered a 'full time' employee, he working a schedule around a non-standard custodial agreement with his ex-wife, which means he might drive for 14-15 hours in one day, and none in another.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#59

Post by the_duke »

vitaminbandit wrote: post #23
lutusp wrote: post #16

Quote: "In a quest to build Uber into the world’s dominant ride-hailing entity, Mr. Kalanick has openly disregarded many rules and norms, backing down only when caught or cornered. He has flouted transportation and safety regulations, bucked against entrenched competitors and capitalized on legal loopholes and gray areas to gain a business advantage." This is classic malignant narcissism[1]. The irony of the story is…

Did you just diagnose someone with a condition that isn't found in the DSM and then cite your own website as a source of evidence?

The linked page is indeed ridiculous. Don't bother.

But: Narcissistic Personality Disorder: DSM-5 301.81

Also mentioned but not properly defined in ICD (F60.8)

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#60

Post by [deleted] »

lithos wrote: post #39
pdog wrote: post #36

From the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing…

It's an APP that has been on your phone at one point. An APP by a company that is peak (maybe valley would be better) SV when it comes to ethical standards. Uber probably has a fingerprinting system that is on par to Google/Facebook and maybe even puts them to shame (maybe paints them in a better light). I imagine that they wouldn't really have much difficulty tracking you through ad tech, another APP, or some other…

[deleted]
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