Live data from Hacker News

Uber CEO Plays with Fire

nytimes.com

31–40 of 529 posts

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#31
One annoying thing with the Uber app is that they disabled the option to give access to location only when the app is running. The only option available in the iOS privacy setting is always or never for access to location (unlike other apps).

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#33
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember the old article, it was not that they could track after the app was deleted, but after the user had exited the app... after they had finished their Uber ride and went on their way

no that was "legal" in the sense that they forced users to turn on location and they stated they would track you up to 5 minutes after you left your uber, for "safety" reasons. this article is talking about something else it seems.

Or possibly the author is mistaken, as happens so often in tech journalism.

I'm not going to defend Kalanick, but I'm through with getting emotionally worked up by news articles.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#34
post #2

No one seems to explain how Uber could track user when the have deleted the app ? It look more like an hack more than "a lack of boundaries" to me...

They mention fingerprinting in the article.

Uber engineers assigned a persistent identity to iPhones with a small piece of code, a practice called “fingerprinting.” Uber could then identify an iPhone and prevent itself from being fooled even after the device was erased of its contents.

There was one problem: Fingerprinting iPhones broke Apple’s rules. Mr. Cook believed that wiping an iPhone should ensure customers that no trace of the owner’s identity remained on the device.

I expect what they do is fingerprint the device to detect fraudulent use later. Typically this is done by combining a bunch of identifiers and details on the device and then hashing the result. The output is a unique identifier for that specific device.

While technically this doesn't store any "identity" information on the device itself, if done correctly, the device could be identified and tracked across wipes (hence Cook's comment).

Of course, the article does a piss poor job explaining this, but for many readers the nuance doesn't matter... They capture the spirit well enough, even if the details are pretty misleading.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#35
post #4

Does anyone know if the animation of Travis at the beginning is actually hand-drawn or uses some kind of After Effects/Photoshop plugin?

I would guess hand drawn. Every pencil sketch effect I've seen leaves more detail, for example, in the hair. Or if you dial that down, you lose detail in features you want to keep, like the nose. The image that's being discussed: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/04/19/technology/24trav...

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#36
From the article, explained:

At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way.

To halt the activity, Uber engineers assigned a persistent identity to iPhones with a small piece of code, a practice called “fingerprinting.” Uber could then identify an iPhone and prevent itself from being fooled even after the device was erased of its contents.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#37
post #18

I really hope Lyft doesn't do anything to screw up, as I've uninstalled Uber and will probably never use the service again. However, I don't see myself going back to regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable. I just hope Lyft plays the game with a social conscious and makes positive decisions and continues to treat drivers well (most Lyft drivers I talk to say they like driving for Lyft way bette…

[deleted]

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#38
post #18

I really hope Lyft doesn't do anything to screw up, as I've uninstalled Uber and will probably never use the service again. However, I don't see myself going back to regular taxi system as that's even more corrupt and despicable. I just hope Lyft plays the game with a social conscious and makes positive decisions and continues to treat drivers well (most Lyft drivers I talk to say they like driving for Lyft way bette…

> I'm not so sure that as a society we should be rewarding people with drive like this "Mr. Kalanick, 40, is driven to the point that he must win at whatever he puts his mind to and at whatever cost". I hope he loses big. Losing everything because of a sociopathic drive to win? That's the stuff of classical tragedy.

The American obsession with winning has definitely jumped the shark with Kalanick and Trump. At least I'm getting tired of all this "winning".

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#39
post #36

From the article, explained: At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing…

It's an APP that has been on your phone at one point. An APP by a company that is peak (maybe valley would be better) SV when it comes to ethical standards. Uber probably has a fingerprinting system that is on par to Google/Facebook and maybe even puts them to shame (maybe paints them in a better light).

I imagine that they wouldn't really have much difficulty tracking you through ad tech, another APP, or some other Cult Of Free system that is willing to sell database access.

Re: Uber CEO Plays with Fire

#40
post #2

No one seems to explain how Uber could track user when the have deleted the app ? It look more like an hack more than "a lack of boundaries" to me...

The article means "track" in the sense of "uniquely identify the physical device," not "send location information." Uber had code that would persistently identify which device was being used across two different installations of the app, even if the device had been factory-reset. (I suppose they could do something like find the MAC address, although Apple has been making that harder.)

Furthermore, that code wasn't triggered, somehow, in devices near Cupertino, indicating that they were trying to hide the code from App Store reviwers.

I think I feel that this is very qualitatively different from gathering location data on users who have deleted the app (if such a thing were possible), but nevertheless a serious ethical lapse.

Post reply on HN