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Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

recode.net

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Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#51

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

heisenbit wrote: post #49
rys wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on Uber producing the device in question eventually. It's in the article.

And the argument was that they did not go forward on that design. So they took it, investigated it and did not use anything they learned in the process.

Doesn't really matter whether they went forward with the design or not. Google alleged "You took our lidar design, and you could only have gotten that design if Levandowski stole it." Uber initially: "No we didn't!" Uber later: "Actually, here it is, but doesn't matter because we don't like that design anyway."

Uber is playing games that 5 year-olds play when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#52

Post by rayiner »

mannykannot wrote: post #46

I know the law has a complicated relationship with logic, but in normal usage, Uber's claim that it is no longer interested in LIDAR, even if taken at face value, clearly has no bearing on the question of whether it was party to an earlier theft of LIDAR-related documents.

> Uber denies this and says it eventually produced the device in question. A representative for Uber told Recode the company did not initially produce the device because they did not think they were required to do so as its designs had been abandoned.

In litigation, one side serves the other side "discovery requests," which are pointed requests for specifically described documents or information. Everyone produces as little as they can get away with in response to discovery requests. Here, it sounds like the discovery request was possibly susceptible to the interpretation that it was only asking for designs that Uber was still actively pursuing, or at least that's how Uber originally tried to interpret it and an employee blew up their spit at a deposition. It's hard to tell without knowing the exact wording of the discovery request.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#53

Post by [deleted] »

mannykannot wrote: post #46

I know the law has a complicated relationship with logic, but in normal usage, Uber's claim that it is no longer interested in LIDAR, even if taken at face value, clearly has no bearing on the question of whether it was party to an earlier theft of LIDAR-related documents.

[deleted]

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#54

Post by [deleted] »

mannykannot wrote: post #46

I know the law has a complicated relationship with logic, but in normal usage, Uber's claim that it is no longer interested in LIDAR, even if taken at face value, clearly has no bearing on the question of whether it was party to an earlier theft of LIDAR-related documents.

[deleted]

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#55

Post by tsunamifury »

yawaworht12 wrote: post #30
OliverJones wrote: post #29

Just an observation .... locating the 20th century car industry in Detroit gave them an unfair advantage over California. Cars have to function correctly in bad weather -- rain, ice, snow, etc. Taxicabs especially. Imagine a transport system in a city like New York or DC where taxis don't function in a rainstorm. It's in bad weather that drivers earn their pay. I know from experience that the Tesla driver assistance…

Like Pittsburgh?

We get the it, you work for Cruise.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#56

Post by Fricken »

OliverJones wrote: post #29

Just an observation .... locating the 20th century car industry in Detroit gave them an unfair advantage over California. Cars have to function correctly in bad weather -- rain, ice, snow, etc. Taxicabs especially. Imagine a transport system in a city like New York or DC where taxis don't function in a rainstorm. It's in bad weather that drivers earn their pay. I know from experience that the Tesla driver assistance…

Waymo has been testing up around Lake Tahoe in the snow, and in Arizona to deal with dust, and in Washington to deal with rain.

Ford and GM are both testing in Michigan.

Here's Drive.ai demoing L4 in a downpour at night (really impressive):

https://youtu.be/GMvgtPN2IBU

But in general terms it's logical to get everything working well in optimal conditions before moving on to challenging weather. I don't think they consider any of this stuff to be unsolvable, short of maybe a whiteout blizzard, but, you know, first things first.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#57

Post by lern_too_spel »

OliverJones wrote: post #29

Just an observation .... locating the 20th century car industry in Detroit gave them an unfair advantage over California. Cars have to function correctly in bad weather -- rain, ice, snow, etc. Taxicabs especially. Imagine a transport system in a city like New York or DC where taxis don't function in a rainstorm. It's in bad weather that drivers earn their pay. I know from experience that the Tesla driver assistance…

Nobody has the capital to set up a taxi system across the US simultaneously. Even Uber, which doesn't have to pay for the cars up front, has to launch a city at a time. Self driving taxis will follow a similar path, launching in Mountain View by the end of the year (according to Alphabet's original claims), expanding to Silicon Valley and LA, and then eventually expanding everywhere. Owning personal transportation in Silicon Valley alone is a nearly billion dollar opportunity.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#58

Post by Neliquat »

yawaworht12 wrote: post #31
onion2k wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Uber's CEO should resign so the company can get some breathing room and reboot their brand. Maybe, unless Kalanick leaving were to be seen as the captain abandoning his sinking ship. At this point it's not really clear if Uber's reputation can actually be rescued. It's pretty bad. That said, plenty of companies make a huge amount of money despite everyone thinking they're terrible. There's no reason why Uber…

Do they have to rescue it? The media has gone so overboard that I jumped off the Uber hating bandwagon about a month ago when I realized that it wasn't a pattern of wrongdoing by the company but a pattern of journalistic malpractice. It's interesting to see that many others are now realizing the same.

What if it's both?

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#59

Post by Natsu »

golergka wrote: post #45
mstank wrote: post #2

Can't say I'm shocked to see Uber's dishonesty here. From all the other claims against them (Lyft and sexual harassment) it seems like this type of behavior is standard operating procedure. This culture is set from the top. It's only a matter of time that Travis will step down. Sooner the better so they can start working on improving integrity throughout the organization. In the 90's, Microsoft was skewered for a lot…

I've been thinking about this lately. The whole character assasination of Uber happenned in the last 2 months - while all the issues, have, allegedly, been around for a long time. And all this publicity right in time for the multi-billion lawsuit... Now, I don't know enough about the situation to come to any conclusions, but the fact that no one here on HN have yet expressed the same doubts.

It's all the YC companies, if you've noticed. They're searching all of them for dirt. Some of that dirt is real, though. I'm taking a wait and see attitude to let things play out in court. There's no prize for being the first to judge someone.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#60

Post by icebraining »

golergka wrote: post #45
mstank wrote: post #2

Can't say I'm shocked to see Uber's dishonesty here. From all the other claims against them (Lyft and sexual harassment) it seems like this type of behavior is standard operating procedure. This culture is set from the top. It's only a matter of time that Travis will step down. Sooner the better so they can start working on improving integrity throughout the organization. In the 90's, Microsoft was skewered for a lot…

I've been thinking about this lately. The whole character assasination of Uber happenned in the last 2 months - while all the issues, have, allegedly, been around for a long time. And all this publicity right in time for the multi-billion lawsuit... Now, I don't know enough about the situation to come to any conclusions, but the fact that no one here on HN have yet expressed the same doubts.

I disagree that the reporting on Uber's crap started two months ago:

"Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley" (2 years ago)

"Uber employees used the platform to stalk celebrities and their exes" (4 months ago)

"Uber's dirty tricks quantified: Rival counts 5,560 canceled rides" (3 years ago)

"Uber Database Breach Exposed Information Of 50,000 Drivers" (2 years ago)

"Uber VP: we could spend $1M to take revenge on journalists" (2 years ago)

"Uber secretly investigated its legal foes — and got caught" (9 months ago)

"Lyft Accuses Former COO of Stealing Confidential Docs Before Joining Uber" (2 years ago)

"Uber: Disability Laws Don’t Apply to Us" (2 years ago)

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