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Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

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Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#21
post #4

In the past year have we ever gone a single month without hearing about malfeasance, exploitation or sexual harassment within that company? April alone has tabloid month! Perhaps Uber's CEO should resign so the company can get some breathing room and reboot their brand.

Perhaps Uber's CEO should resign so the company can get some breathing room and reboot their brand.

Maybe, unless Kalanick leaving were to be seen as the captain abandoning his sinking ship. At this point it's not really clear if Uber's reputation can actually be rescued. It's pretty bad. That said, plenty of companies make a huge amount of money despite everyone thinking they're terrible. There's no reason why Uber can't become the 'budget airline' or 'discount retailer' of ride hailing apps.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#22
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the news makes sensationalist headlines and online outrage, sadly it doesn't seem like consumers care about Uber's behavior.

Uber is in my city (UK), no competing services are. Traditional taxis are a huge PITA here, 30+ minute arrival times if they even arrive, pretty high prices compared to the rest of the country. Plenty of people are complaining about Uber here, but they are reliable.

I'm also in the UK (Newcastle) and the story is the same here.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#23
post #2

Can't say I'm shocked to see Uber's dishonesty here. From all the other claims against them (Lyft and sexual harassment) it seems like this type of behavior is standard operating procedure. This culture is set from the top. It's only a matter of time that Travis will step down. Sooner the better so they can start working on improving integrity throughout the organization. In the 90's, Microsoft was skewered for a lot…

Based on what proof. The article provided nothing in the way of evidence, just Google's claim. They could claim anything. Since when did HN stop exercising healthy skepticism?

Also based on a pattern of behavior. These issues are systemic and have been going on for years. This is the same company that ignores sexual harassment claims, illegally tracks and blackmails journalists, deploys highly questionable anti-competitive tactics at will.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#24
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have revenue, but not profit, lost $3B last year despite seeing growth in revenue . The business goal (the product itself) is 10000x times better than Groupon. Car service is more direct. Groupon isn't a bad idea either, but the experience isn't as direct and as Uber. You see, emailing me / texting me offers is great, but I don't have time to scroll down and read the same kind of email everyday. If instead at…

> The business goal (the product itself) is 10000x times better than Groupon. To illegally set up a non-compliant taxi service that doesn't pay taxes, that doesn't pay minimum wage to its employees, that has been banned already in several countries, that ignores human safety introducing illegally self-driving cars, it is not a very good business model.

If only legal taxi services weren't so uniformly terrible. I don't like Uber's culture, but I still use it whenever Lyft isn't available and the only other option is a taxi whose credit card reader is "broken".

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what proof. The article provided nothing in the way of evidence, just Google's claim. They could claim anything. Since when did HN stop exercising healthy skepticism?

Also based on a pattern of behavior. These issues are systemic and have been going on for years. This is the same company that ignores sexual harassment claims, illegally tracks and blackmails journalists, deploys highly questionable anti-competitive tactics at will.

You should still wait for hard evidence before accepting Google's claims. Otherwise you will end up accepting false claims simply because they match what you believe about Uber.

Making false claims in the media that have been designed to resonate with and reinforce the current zeitgeist is a pretty easy trick to pull and a lot of people fall for it.

It's easy enough to avoid by waiting for hard evidence

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#26
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have revenue, but not profit, lost $3B last year despite seeing growth in revenue . The business goal (the product itself) is 10000x times better than Groupon. Car service is more direct. Groupon isn't a bad idea either, but the experience isn't as direct and as Uber. You see, emailing me / texting me offers is great, but I don't have time to scroll down and read the same kind of email everyday. If instead at…

> The business goal (the product itself) is 10000x times better than Groupon. To illegally set up a non-compliant taxi service that doesn't pay taxes, that doesn't pay minimum wage to its employees, that has been banned already in several countries, that ignores human safety introducing illegally self-driving cars, it is not a very good business model.

Oh yes it is… to the extent that you get away with it, without consequences (in that light, getting banned is bad IF you can't also break that law and get away with it).

It's much like arbitrage, making money or gaining control of a market by exploiting weakness on the grandest scale possible. IF there are consequences for the behavior, then you've just illustrated one way to fail, perhaps on the same grand scale (see: Enron). If there are no consequences you're just doing another type of arbitrage and rather than being a poor business model you're an unmatchably superior business model that others must emulate or die.

Jury's out on whether Uber is the former or the latter. Until that's clear, the CEO will not resign or back off in the slightest, because they can't: it's a strategy of never backing down or admitting weakness in any sense, with the tone set from the top. If they can get powerful enough friends and never face consequences, they win. If they're more powerful than the law, they are the law.

We do see a tendency in modern trade agreements to hold entire countries responsible for injuring the profitability of large companies. In that light, Uber bans could be made illegal, under certain conditions, much like banning tobacco advertising can be made illegal.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#27
post #25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also based on a pattern of behavior. These issues are systemic and have been going on for years. This is the same company that ignores sexual harassment claims, illegally tracks and blackmails journalists, deploys highly questionable anti-competitive tactics at will.

You should still wait for hard evidence before accepting Google's claims. Otherwise you will end up accepting false claims simply because they match what you believe about Uber. Making false claims in the media that have been designed to resonate with and reinforce the current zeitgeist is a pretty easy trick to pull and a lot of people fall for it. It's easy enough to avoid by waiting for hard evidence

> Otherwise you will end up accepting false claims

I think you mean "may". A lack of hard evidence backing up a claim doesn't necessarily mean the claim is false.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what proof. The article provided nothing in the way of evidence, just Google's claim. They could claim anything. Since when did HN stop exercising healthy skepticism?

Also based on a pattern of behavior. These issues are systemic and have been going on for years. This is the same company that ignores sexual harassment claims, illegally tracks and blackmails journalists, deploys highly questionable anti-competitive tactics at will.

I used to work at a very successful tech company that became the Goliath in its market and saw first hand how the media vilified us and interpreted every little thing we did through evil-colored glasses. I few issues were legitimate criticisms but they were textbook cases of situations where Hanlon's Razor should have been applied. Everyone assumed malice where there there was at worst poor judgement. Eventually the media cycle reached a fever pitch to drive clicks and everything was interpreted in the worst way possible to drive whatever narrative people (just like you) wanted to believe.

Cite me a single shred of evidence to support your claim that they have blackmailed a single journalist.

Uber and its closest competitor Lyft engaged in pretty much all the same competitive actions but only Uber is criticized for them. Everyone criticizes Uber for subsidization tactics to win market share and conveniently ignores that Lyft does the exact same. My observations with my former employee roughly aligns with what I've seen with Uber. 20% or so is legitimate criticism (due to poor judgement) and 80% is hyperbolic and applied to us and our competitors and applies to Uber and its competitors.

Near as I can tell this is a phenomena that applies to every single unicorn that has viable competitors. It happened to Facebook, Google, Amazon, Apple, etc. near as I can tell, the only difference that I can tell between how Uber is being treated and they were treated come down to the zeitgeist when they came of age. The past 2-3 years has seen a sharp increase in polarization of the political atmosphere with a lot more social justice folks in journalistic positions than in years past and Uber is the favorite whipping boy. For example, Apple has been subject to this as well. Apple was widely criticized over labor practices of its suppliers in China despite the fact that it had and continues to have some of the best practices and policing of suppliers in the industry.

Take the Susan Fowler situation. It's a shame and it never should have happened, but in the very same week when her blog post of allegations was published, there was an actual sexual harassment case filed in an actual court against Tesla, but almost no one heard about that because the media loves Tesla.

Everyone I've spoken to that has ever worked at a successful unicorn has related similar stories of unfair criticism, especially when there were viable competitors whose investors are powerful and can drive a story through the journalists they've invested in or have strong relationships with. There's a reason why investors like Marc Andreessen have invested heavily in the career of well known Silicon Valley journalists and it's not because those journalists have an exit strategy that will net him a 10x or 100x return.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#29
Just an observation .... locating the 20th century car industry in Detroit gave them an unfair advantage over California. Cars have to function correctly in bad weather -- rain, ice, snow, etc.

Taxicabs especially. Imagine a transport system in a city like New York or DC where taxis don't function in a rainstorm. It's in bad weather that drivers earn their pay.

I know from experience that the Tesla driver assistance stuff doesn't work in the rain. It won't engage. "Can't see well enough" is what it says.

Maybe these Sili Valley types should stop fighting over fair-weather car control stuff, and spend the same money setting up development shops somewhere besides endless-summer California.

Patents only last 20 years. It's going to take 30 to convert the transport network.

Re: Alphabet claims Uber was hiding the self-driving tech that it allegedly copied

#30

Just an observation .... locating the 20th century car industry in Detroit gave them an unfair advantage over California. Cars have to function correctly in bad weather -- rain, ice, snow, etc. Taxicabs especially. Imagine a transport system in a city like New York or DC where taxis don't function in a rainstorm. It's in bad weather that drivers earn their pay. I know from experience that the Tesla driver assistance…

Like Pittsburgh?
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