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Tmux and Vim – better together

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Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#161

Post by ruleabidinguser »

zeroxfe wrote: post #30

All this looks really great, however I think I just can't deal with the effort of maintaining these complex editor configurations anymore. I've been a multi-decade Vim user, until I switched to VSCode last year. It made me realize how much better the user experience can be for an editor. I had all kinds of complex vim configurations and plugins with special cases for linux vs. mac, server vs. desktop, GUI vs. termina…

Thjis is just what Vim and emacs die-hards won't recognize. This is the value of an IDE. The driving force behind these editors' popularity is bad developers.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#162

Post by ruleabidinguser »

dmix wrote: post #107
Touche wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it weird? You created yours 10 years ago, great. For those of us who didn't it is a bit of a hassle.

Pretty much everyone knows the price of admission to using tools like Vim and Emacs is the time investment in config and learning the quirks. What the OP is saying that this doesn't have to be a perpetual state. Once you invest effort early on getting it right you often don't need to touch it, beyond a few tweaks now and then. The maintenance burden definitely declines over time. Then all you need is a storage soluti…

No matter how much you tweak it, you will never even start to scratch an experience like Visual Studio. Vim is a fundamentally weaker platform.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#163

Post by hellofunk »

maccard wrote: post #101
fredsir wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing works out of the box, especially if you are trying to make two plugins work nicely with each other. Indeed, but it doesn't really matter since the default experience in VSCode or IntelliJ or Xcode or any other IDE or editor doesn't work for me out of the box either. I have to change things anyways, and I can't change VSCode or IntelliJ or Xcode to fit my liking, but I've been able to change tmux+vim to it,…

> Indeed, but it doesn't really matter since the default experience in VSCode or IntelliJ or Xcode or any other IDE or editor doesn't work for me out of the box either. I have to change things anyways, and I can't change VSCode or IntelliJ or Xcode to fit my liking, but I've been able to change tmux+vim to it, although it could be even better. I disagree. The default settings of Visual studio work perfectly fine for…

I use Emacs for C++ and I've tried a wide variety of auto complete packages, never really getting them to work properly. And the result is that Ive learned that I can be just as productive without auto complete as I was with it. In fact, I might even be more insightful into what I'm working on, because instead of relying on a pop-up menu for an API, I actually have to look at API documentation and properly learn it that way , which usually gives me much more knowledge about what I'm trying to do

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#164

Post by news_to_me »

ruleabidinguser wrote: post #161
zeroxfe wrote: post #30

All this looks really great, however I think I just can't deal with the effort of maintaining these complex editor configurations anymore. I've been a multi-decade Vim user, until I switched to VSCode last year. It made me realize how much better the user experience can be for an editor. I had all kinds of complex vim configurations and plugins with special cases for linux vs. mac, server vs. desktop, GUI vs. termina…

Thjis is just what Vim and emacs die-hards won't recognize. This is the value of an IDE. The driving force behind these editors' popularity is bad developers .

I think that's a little harsh. What a lot of people (including myself) dislike about IDEs is that you lose a lot of tool composability, and to some extent you have to play by the IDE's rules. With a Vim + CLI setup, you get to define the optimal flow, but the tradeoff is maintainability.

For many, though, once you get your environment set up, it feels amazingly natural, more than an IDE could provide. It's more a matter of taste than anything.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#165

Post by pera »

doktrin wrote: post #132
dmix wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everyone knows the price of admission to using tools like Vim and Emacs is the time investment in config and learning the quirks. What the OP is saying that this doesn't have to be a perpetual state. Once you invest effort early on getting it right you often don't need to touch it, beyond a few tweaks now and then. The maintenance burden definitely declines over time. Then all you need is a storage soluti…

> Pretty much everyone knows the price of admission to using tools like Vim and Emacs is the time investment in config and learning the quirks. To me, the real hurdle to vim (or emacs) isn't configuration : it's learning vim (or emacs). That muscle memory doesn't come from a .vimrc file, and it doesn't come overnight. Is that what you meant by "quirks"?

Muscle memory only comes after using your editor of choice for a considerable amount of time. With Vim, as a mnemonic, internally talking with the editor is the best way to go: for instance, if you need to change the content of a string literal like "hello world" just think Change Inside ". To me learning Vim is essentially learning a live programming language.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#167

Post by ruleabidinguser »

news_to_me wrote: post #164
ruleabidinguser wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thjis is just what Vim and emacs die-hards won't recognize. This is the value of an IDE. The driving force behind these editors' popularity is bad developers .

I think that's a little harsh. What a lot of people (including myself) dislike about IDEs is that you lose a lot of tool composability, and to some extent you have to play by the IDE's rules. With a Vim + CLI setup, you get to define the optimal flow, but the tradeoff is maintainability. For many, though, once you get your environment set up, it feels amazingly natural, more than an IDE could provide. It's more a mat…

Here is the key value provided by an IDE:

* Autocomplete. This deserves way more recognition than it gets. Having function signatures, documentation, overloads, types, available IN-LINE while you type saves so much work from programming and is essential to delivering correct code. If you want to be an effective programmer, this is a fundamental tool.

* Debugger. Easy breakpoints, conditional breakpoints, built-in profiling... Without these features, you will consistently produce inferior code.

I don't see how someone who calls themselves a serious programmer can throw away these exceptional tools.

VIM and other lightweights have their place, their place just isnt serious programming (by which I mean large software projects).

Whats more, VIM and similar tools make each step of the process, including incredibly simplke things like compiling and running your program, take exponentially longer and are similarly more xpensive to the programmer. I think most folks who don't believe this are simply in denial. VSCode delivers on these two features and is instantly an infinitely superior programming experience.

Its a cult.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#168

Post by aerique »

juandazapata wrote: post #141
Touche wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Plugins breaking or interfering with other plugins is a regular thing.

I guess I must be doing something terribly wrong, because I can't relate to that at all.

Perhaps some kind of package manager that auto-updates plugins?

My packages are static and I only update when there's a good reason to do so.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#169

Post by cicloid »

rublev wrote: post #43
juandazapata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I built my .rc files like 10 years ago, and only edit them about twice a year to add a plugin or modify a keybinding. Not a pain to maintain at all.

How do you store them? Just backup into a dotfiles repo or what? I've been looking into dotfiles + gnu stow.

Stow is probably the simplest way to do it. The only weird thing is the directory structure I have with `.` prefixes in order to be linked as I want them inside my home.

Besides that, I don't see how a better way to do it.

Re: Tmux and Vim – better together

#170

Post by sergiosgc »

name_for_now wrote: post #106
hultner wrote: post #32

I usually use :!command to run a command real quick from within vim, where I also have access to the current filename and contents. A classic gem is ":w !diff % -" to see what I've changed since the last save.

I used to run more commands from vim, but now I personally find Ctrl-Z is usually more convenient for all the one-off commands. If I do run stuff from inside of vim, it's now usually ":w !" or ":r !" (or some custom command wrapper around those).

Oh! Ctrl-Z! I've been calling !zsh all these years, for quick shell access, and never thought of suspending vim.

Thanks for the nugget.

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