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Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

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Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#71

Post by jamhan »

sanswork wrote: post #70
jamhan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really that obtuse? I write my CV. It has 20+ years of experience plus degree from my University. Simple math not your strong point perhaps?

If you have 20+ years of experience on your CV it's a shit CV. Why would anyone hiring care what you were doing over 20 years ago? I'm wondering what else was wrong with it that you didn't get a single response in 2 years of trying. Were you including unique cover letters? Where were you finding the jobs you were applying to? Did you try going through a recruiter?

And now we get to the crux of the matter. I wonder how old you are? Why is it that in IT broad long-term experience is considered irrelevant? If you have not done exactly that something in the past six months you might as well not exist. I love the conversations with recruiters/companies that go something like this:

Them: I see you you used technologies X,Y,Z in your last job. Me: Yes, and Them: Did you use with technology-X at all? Me: No, I used B-framework because reasons. Them: You are dead to us.

BTW, I find it puzzling you are focusing specifically on my perceived failure in the job market rather than the topic of the original post.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#72

Post by sanswork »

jamhan wrote: post #71
sanswork wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have 20+ years of experience on your CV it's a shit CV. Why would anyone hiring care what you were doing over 20 years ago? I'm wondering what else was wrong with it that you didn't get a single response in 2 years of trying. Were you including unique cover letters? Where were you finding the jobs you were applying to? Did you try going through a recruiter?

And now we get to the crux of the matter. I wonder how old you are? Why is it that in IT broad long-term experience is considered irrelevant? If you have not done exactly that something in the past six months you might as well not exist. I love the conversations with recruiters/companies that go something like this: Them: I see you you used technologies X,Y,Z in your last job. Me: Yes, and Them: Did you use with tech…

I'm in my mid-30s and I don't care how old you are I've worked with many excellent programmers in their 50s and 60s and learned tons from all of them.

Broad long-term experience isn't considered irrelevant it's just not needed on a CV. If you haven't done it in the past 5 years you're probably just not that skilled at it anymore and if you have it's already on the CV in the newer role.

Are you just imagining those conversations because you said in 2 years you never made it to the interview stage.

You are blaming your failure on the topic of the original post so it is relevant.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#73

Post by catmanjan »

yakult wrote: post #60
catmanjan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I do. Increasing the supply should fix the problem but there are so many other factors at play in the Australian housing market. Tax concessions, foreign investment, wage stagnation, youth unemployment make it a very hostile market for many people. It's all too big to fail and prices need to go up to keep everyone's super from devaluing. Investment in the education system won't lead to big change without deregula…

Let's look at this from another perspective: do you see an improvement to any of these large complex problems if we remove money from it? Do you see ways to marginally improve things with marginally more money? Just so you know, my answers are no and yes. >If we still can't even select uni entrants based on those holistic measures what chance do we have of selecting migrants? And yet migrants still get selected on a…

I think your comments are coming off as sassy hence the downvotes, but I don't mind.

My argument is more that I believe large injections of money were the original cause of a lot of the problems we have, adding more is perhaps a band-aid solution.

I personally believe we need to suffer the short term pain of looking out for our own citizens above all else, most of which would mean popping the bubble and removing the interventionist policies.

I am worried that this will happen along with the visa changes causing a greater loss of sovereignty than was ever intended...

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#74

Post by catmanjan »

hiram112 wrote: post #56
catmanjan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sanswork said, easy to get new devs, but as soon as they've put in a few years it's very easy to go out on your own or go overseas.

So what? You'll have to compete? You've gotten so used to your cheap labor, indentured workforce,that you can't even contemplate employees participating in a free market ?

That's globalization I guess, an extreme example is: would you blame a nation in poverty struggling for existence in the modern world for not attracting good techos?

As for contractors, all's fair in the free market except when contracting to government who are blind to /real/ value due to a range of bureaucratic reasons.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#75

Post by catmanjan »

sanswork wrote: post #39
empressplay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I helped someone look for a new role and got to see the major local players and the talent pool they're hiring from (if they hire at all, lots of places seem to advertise but are in no hurry to actually hire anyone.) There are plenty of fish in the sea, at least around here. All you have do is go to a meetup group or two to see that.

How did you see the talent pool they are hiring from if you were helping someone look for a job and not helping someone hire for a job? Did you ask companies to see their applicant lists and CVs or something? Any of the meetups I've been to in Australia are mostly employed people(half only there to try and find other devs), recruiters and uni students or recent grads. Which meetups did you go to it would likely be wo…

I think he's implying that there should be more poaching... Personally I find it a strange concept which seems confined to sales and tech jobs (especially in America)

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#76

Post by jamhan »

sanswork wrote: post #72
jamhan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now we get to the crux of the matter. I wonder how old you are? Why is it that in IT broad long-term experience is considered irrelevant? If you have not done exactly that something in the past six months you might as well not exist. I love the conversations with recruiters/companies that go something like this: Them: I see you you used technologies X,Y,Z in your last job. Me: Yes, and Them: Did you use with tech…

I'm in my mid-30s and I don't care how old you are I've worked with many excellent programmers in their 50s and 60s and learned tons from all of them. Broad long-term experience isn't considered irrelevant it's just not needed on a CV. If you haven't done it in the past 5 years you're probably just not that skilled at it anymore and if you have it's already on the CV in the newer role. Are you just imagining those co…

I was talking about actual in-the-flesh interviews, which are the only ones that count in the end. Recruiters/companies often do phone "interviews" or "pre-screenings" or whatever and those were the "conversations" I was referring to. So now you've called me a liar as well as having called my CVs "shit". What a pleasant co-worker you must be.

Edit: On that note, perhaps you could post somewhere an anonymised version of your CV so we can all benefit from the pinnacle of CV design.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#77

Post by yakult »

yakult wrote: post #60
catmanjan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I do. Increasing the supply should fix the problem but there are so many other factors at play in the Australian housing market. Tax concessions, foreign investment, wage stagnation, youth unemployment make it a very hostile market for many people. It's all too big to fail and prices need to go up to keep everyone's super from devaluing. Investment in the education system won't lead to big change without deregula…

Let's look at this from another perspective: do you see an improvement to any of these large complex problems if we remove money from it? Do you see ways to marginally improve things with marginally more money? Just so you know, my answers are no and yes. >If we still can't even select uni entrants based on those holistic measures what chance do we have of selecting migrants? And yet migrants still get selected on a…

>I think your comments are coming off as sassy hence the downvotes, but I don't mind.

Eh. No biggie.

>My argument is more that I believe large injections of money were the original cause of a lot of the problems we have, adding more is perhaps a band-aid solution.

This is more a question of resource allocation efficiency. You're right, the government does indeed waste a lot of the money it takes in, but the answer there is to improve efficiency, not artificially decreasing income. When there is an opportunity for large revenue increase while simultaneously cutting queue times? Still a go.

>I personally believe we need to suffer the short term pain of looking out for our own citizens above all else, most of which would mean popping the bubble and removing the interventionist policies.

If there is a bubble to be popped, the government would be in a stronger position if it first builds up a financial warchest.

>I am worried that this will happen along with the visa changes causing a greater loss of sovereignty than was ever intended...

With my plan we'll suddenly make a number of very rich and powerful people Australian citizens. If anything this brings in new blood to challenge the Murdochs media and their US slant. Plus I suspect the influx of business interests will see a strong swing against any sort of US-lead military adventurism. That's sovereignty right there.

I suppose there would be worries of a soft Chinese / Indian / whatever takeover, but this is mostly avoidable by setting the ticket price high enough to reduce the absolute numbers coming in, then supplement with subsidized tickets for preferred demos.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#78

Post by jamhan »

sanswork wrote: post #68
jamhan wrote: post #65

Oh please. Spare us the pearl clutching. I'm willing to bet that if I filed a freedom of information act on this company's 457 applications that 1) there was little or no attempt to find a suitable candidate in the local market and 2) the 457s they did get have some relationship to employees already at the company. The 457 visa was a government program that was being exploited, and quite obviously too, for quite some…

Atlassian hires tons of graduates. > I spent 2+ fruitless years searching for more IT work, >I didn't get invited to a single interview If you didn't get a single interview in two years of looking either you are vastly overestimating your capabilities compared to your CV or your CV is junk. How many different CVs did you try during that time? What are you skilled in? You say IT work but are you a programmer, ops, sup…

Sigh. Clearly I wasn't referring to graduates. Read his comments recently regarding 457s.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#79

Post by sanswork »

jamhan wrote: post #76
sanswork wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my mid-30s and I don't care how old you are I've worked with many excellent programmers in their 50s and 60s and learned tons from all of them. Broad long-term experience isn't considered irrelevant it's just not needed on a CV. If you haven't done it in the past 5 years you're probably just not that skilled at it anymore and if you have it's already on the CV in the newer role. Are you just imagining those co…

I was talking about actual in-the-flesh interviews, which are the only ones that count in the end. Recruiters/companies often do phone "interviews" or "pre-screenings" or whatever and those were the "conversations" I was referring to. So now you've called me a liar as well as having called my CVs "shit". What a pleasant co-worker you must be. Edit: On that note, perhaps you could post somewhere an anonymised version…

So you've had interviews?

You shouldn't be so defensive of your CV but I apologize if I was rude. Plenty of mine were shit over the years too. I've had to read thousands over the years and discuss them with others so I have some idea of what turns hiring managers off. There is no need for that much history on a CV regardless of your age. You want your CV to tell the hiring person you can do the job. A full listing of all your work history doesn't do that it just adds pages to the print out that aren't going to be read and will probably annoy the person for having to scroll through them all since I assume you include other information at the end. 20+ year old educational qualifications don't do that. 5 years outside of uni you should drop it unless you have some particularly special and amazing qualification. Tell them if they ask.

I haven't needed a CV for like a decade now but rest assured my last one was pretty shit too.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#80

Post by weeksie »

sanswork wrote: post #13
xiphias wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain?

It's really hard to find intermediate to senior devs in Australia and has been for nearly a decade. It's even harder now with a few big companies like Atlassian grabbing them up enmasse whenever they become available.

To be fair, anecdotally at least, a ton of seniors/intermediates just migrate elsewhere. The pay for dev work in the US is _WAY_ higher than in Oz, especially at that level. Though, I've been away for almost ten years so maybe that has changed.
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