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Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

rexsoftware.com

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Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#31

Post by empressplay »

sanswork wrote: post #8
lysp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are only meant to use the visa to fill a need/gap where there are no local workers to fill a job. The minimum wage for the visa is $40,000 USD ($53k AUD). What companies are doing however, is hiring foreign workers (typically from India for IT based roles) and paying them $40k rather than the local average wage of $75-100k. They are using the visa as a method to decrease wage costs to almost half of what a…

I'm guessing you haven't had to try and hire devs in Australia before if cost of developers is what you think the main problem is.

I've recently had a pretty good look at the Melbourne software dev market and there are seemingly plenty of senior devs looking for work, companies here appear to have the "pick of the litter" when hiring.

Maybe you're just in the wrong part of Australia?

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#32

Post by empressplay »

sanswork wrote: post #29
empressplay wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it becomes the responsibility of the industry to encourage students to study computer science in uni...

And those students might be helpful for these roles in a decade. So do you expect these companies to survive just cooling their heels until then?

That's a bit of a gotcha argument. Besides, it's my experience there are plenty of senior devs to go around.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#33

Post by sanswork »

empressplay wrote: post #31
sanswork wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you haven't had to try and hire devs in Australia before if cost of developers is what you think the main problem is.

I've recently had a pretty good look at the Melbourne software dev market and there are seemingly plenty of senior devs looking for work, companies here appear to have the "pick of the litter" when hiring. Maybe you're just in the wrong part of Australia?

When you say you had a pretty good look at the market what do you mean?

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#34

Post by cdsx »

mkj wrote: post #25
yakult wrote: post #6

They should just replace the whole shebang with 'pay us $x to get a visa, $y for PR, $z for citizenship'. Company wants to hire from overseas? Fine, they can figure out how to split the cost between company and employee, with zero government involvement. Rich people from the US seeking doomsday shelter? A few million dollars, a clean criminal record and less than 48 hours in the queue. Much easier than the current sy…

A business investment visa already is that.

Yep. I believe you can also become an Australian permanent resident and then citizen through that visa. You just need a spare 5 to 15 million dollars AUD to invest, depending :). IIRC Steve Wozniak went for it or at least was considering it. Details here: https://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Form/Immi-FAQs/what-is-t...

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#35

Post by zik »

pyrophane wrote: post #12
lysp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are only meant to use the visa to fill a need/gap where there are no local workers to fill a job. The minimum wage for the visa is $40,000 USD ($53k AUD). What companies are doing however, is hiring foreign workers (typically from India for IT based roles) and paying them $40k rather than the local average wage of $75-100k. They are using the visa as a method to decrease wage costs to almost half of what a…

So, essentially this parallels the H1-B situation in the US. We are NOT (at least many of us) opposed to immigration. We want more Americans. What we don't want is a class of temporary workers to out-compete domestic workers because they 1) can't switch jobs and 2) are cheaper.

Yes, Australian "457 visas" are the equivalent of US H1-B visas.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#36

Post by empressplay »

sanswork wrote: post #33
empressplay wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently had a pretty good look at the Melbourne software dev market and there are seemingly plenty of senior devs looking for work, companies here appear to have the "pick of the litter" when hiring. Maybe you're just in the wrong part of Australia?

When you say you had a pretty good look at the market what do you mean?

I mean I helped someone look for a new role and got to see the major local players and the talent pool they're hiring from (if they hire at all, lots of places seem to advertise but are in no hurry to actually hire anyone.)

There are plenty of fish in the sea, at least around here. All you have do is go to a meetup group or two to see that.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#38

Post by empressplay »

sanswork wrote: post #20
cynix wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like they're simply expensive to hire, not necessarily hard to find.

Say you need a senior developer and there are none on the market so you offer mine a 10% increase and free chocolate bars to come work for you. You now have a senior developer and I'm now in need of one but there are none of the market. When you suggest someone pay developers more to hire them away from the competition you aren't solving the problem you are just moving it to another company.

Wages go up, people flood into the field -- I'm not sure what the problem is there? Don't we collectively want software development to become more financially attractive so that more students choose to study it?

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#39

Post by sanswork »

empressplay wrote: post #36
sanswork wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say you had a pretty good look at the market what do you mean?

I mean I helped someone look for a new role and got to see the major local players and the talent pool they're hiring from (if they hire at all, lots of places seem to advertise but are in no hurry to actually hire anyone.) There are plenty of fish in the sea, at least around here. All you have do is go to a meetup group or two to see that.

How did you see the talent pool they are hiring from if you were helping someone look for a job and not helping someone hire for a job?

Did you ask companies to see their applicant lists and CVs or something?

Any of the meetups I've been to in Australia are mostly employed people(half only there to try and find other devs), recruiters and uni students or recent grads. Which meetups did you go to it would likely be worth adding them to my list for next time I'm in Melbourne.

Re: Software company's response to Australian government abolishing migrant visas

#40

Post by yakult »

catmanjan wrote: post #18
yakult wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all social problems created from this change in immigration policy can be fixed with money. And we'll be swimming in money. And we can use it to fix problems unrelated to this policy.

Yes money makes things easier. I think our biggest problems now are housing and the future of employment (aka the youth), unfortunately neither of these issues needs more money involved.

Do you seriously think those problems can't be fixed with money? Increasing housing supply costs money. Upgrading the education system costs money. UBI and other social services for people replaced by automation costs money. Investment in innovation and basic scientific research costs money.

In the same way, preventing monoculture is a simple case of directly subsidizing people's visas/PR/citizenship on various grounds, humanitarian or otherwise, under my scheme.

The only difference is that by attaching a firm market value per document, we'll finally get a clear sense on the opportunity cost of immigration policy by fiat. The current system is a mess of inefficiency and hidden cross-subsidies that can mostly be much better spent on other, more urgent problems.

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