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Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

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Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#131

Post by _rpd »

posguy wrote: post #86
cmahler7 wrote: post #35

We're at the point where the United State can either become utopia or dystopia. Automation can either allow everyone to do whatever they want with almost unlimited leisure, or continue as it has destroying the middle class and consolidating wealth for the elite. I used to be hardcore capitalism but if something isn't done to spread the wealth we are going to have our own French revolution with the plebes rising up ag…

The bible speaks of Jubilee, the 50th year where debts are wiped clear, and land is pooled and redivided among the people. There are Christians who believe this should be a thing in modern society, and it is quite practical. Note: I say this as an Atheist, ex-Catholic. Jubilee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_%28biblical%29

> and it is quite practical.

It would be brutal. Very few would be able to get credit, and those that could would come under constant pressure to liquidate assets.

> land is pooled and redivided

If the government tried to seize and redistribute private land, there would be civil war.

I think we have different definitions of practical.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#132

Post by [deleted] »

sbardle wrote: post #19
irrational wrote: post #6

I worry about this for my oldest son. He has dyspraxia and apraxia. In practice that means he has difficulty with memory (at 15 he still doesn't know his multiplication tables) and putting things in order (such as speaking - you have to put phonemes, words, sentences together in order to speak). But, he doesn't look like he has a disability and he doesn't speak much so people don't readily realize he doesn't talk lik…

I went to a school where a number of friends were not academic in the slightest. They left as soon as they could often with no qualifications but gradually learnt trades. Many now have their own businesses (one is a plasterer, another a builder) and they earn good money, own their own homes, and have no student debt. The reason? They had supportive parents. Many of the people who are falling into despair tragically c…

[deleted]

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#133

Post by icantdrive55 »

posguy wrote: post #16
cryptarch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe learning a craft could work for him? Woodworking, metalworking, glass-blowing, programming? An apprenticeship might just be right up his alley, but I'm not sure how available that is in the US.

For plumbers, electricians and a few other trades you can become a journeyman apprentice in the US, and after a few years you can earn high 5 digits to low 6 digits with healthcare usually. That being said, its a mature industry and not highly regarded in the US as it is a "blue collar" job. Stigmatizing & devaluing an honest days work is ridiculous to me, but that is what our society has done to these jobs.

Union electricians are not looked down upon. Local 6 Electricians in San Francisco makes more the the average Programmer. They are making over $100/hr. as I write this. They will be working when the boom busts too. At least, book 1 electricians.

That said, it's not easy to get into. The well paying unions are all hard to get into. It's not the test, it's getting all the answers right, and then an oral accounts for 1/2 of the acceptance procedure.

To the original poster. Don't give up on you son. I had a terrible time learning, but it cleared up. It cleared up for myself in grade school. I had some kind of learning disability, but the experts didn't have a clue. I was painful shy, and honestly just wanted to be outside. I also studdered terribly.

Anyways it all just cleared up. I got cocky in eight grade because getting A's, and B's became easy. I hated high school, but loved college.

It was my last year of high school that I realized I was a Very visual learner.

Your son might be too? I remember having a terrible time remembering the multiplication table, and honestly think it's a waste of time.

In my last year of high school, I changed up the way I took notes in class. I would take one set of neat notes. I couldn't get every syllable the instructor spewed out, but I got enough. I would take all my notes on plain paper--no lines. Every page of notes had a picture/doodle incorporated into my notes. I would never recopy. I would go home and look at those notes before bed. I would touch up my doodles in my notes. At test time, I could visualize many of those pages. (And no--I do not have a idetic memory.)

I did had to repeat math courses at a community college. I needed to take basic math. Within a year, I finished Trig with an easy A.

I finished a four year college, and did pretty well. I spent a year in graduate school, and did well too. I was about to go to med school, but had a terrible nervous breakdown. Now that affected by life to this day. Looking back, I don't know what caused the breakdown, other than trying to be perfect, and being in my twenties.

My point is run the visual learning techniques by your son. I think someone must have written a book on what worked for myself?

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#134

Post by magic_beans »

_pmf_ wrote: post #93
cmahler7 wrote: post #35

We're at the point where the United State can either become utopia or dystopia. Automation can either allow everyone to do whatever they want with almost unlimited leisure, or continue as it has destroying the middle class and consolidating wealth for the elite. I used to be hardcore capitalism but if something isn't done to spread the wealth we are going to have our own French revolution with the plebes rising up ag…

> The anger that got trump elected is just the beginning if things don't change Try to get a single Democrat to acknowledge this. They are still belitteling and stigmatizing those who share these concerns (and riduculing them for their audacity of hoping that Trump will be able to change anything).

I'm a Democrat (or a bleeding-heart liberal if you will). I completely understand why people voted for Trump. I'm simply puzzled as to why many of the poor folks who voted for him would do so, as his election is clearly not going to help anyone who isn't in his tax bracket.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#135

Post by Stryder »

ryandrake wrote: post #4

> The fates of the less-educated and those who graduate from universities diverge in dire ways. Middle-aged white Americans without four-year degrees are at increasing risk of dying, a well-documented trend driven not only by drug use but also by alcoholism, suicide, and slowing progress against heart disease and cancer. While that's pretty damn horrible, the fate of people with newly-minted bachelor's degrees isn't…

In a functional society with strong leadership, people are allowed to come up short, and not suffer as a result of coming up short.

The US used to be like this, and people thrived as a result. We've been heading in the opposite direction.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#136

Post by [deleted] »

irrational wrote: post #6

I worry about this for my oldest son. He has dyspraxia and apraxia. In practice that means he has difficulty with memory (at 15 he still doesn't know his multiplication tables) and putting things in order (such as speaking - you have to put phonemes, words, sentences together in order to speak). But, he doesn't look like he has a disability and he doesn't speak much so people don't readily realize he doesn't talk lik…

[deleted]

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#137

Post by anigbrowl »

zeteo wrote: post #104

> Johnson started using opioids in high school after breaking his collarbone, first in football and again while wrestling [... T]hings slipped out of control after he graduated and found that his skills — art and cooking, but not academics — meant little in the workforce. > At one point [... he] got a full-time job making wood pallets. [...] “It’s a stupid job. It doesn’t matter if you’re high to work it” It's hard n…

Skills in sports, arts and cooking are highly marketable and the evidence of this abundant, just switch on your TV. These are also highly competitive injuries in which a great deal of strategy is needed to succeed because the economics are brutal and the media is dedicated to presenting (almost) only the upsides in order to attract an ongoing supply of cheap labor that can be exploited for short-term profit.

I resent your suggestion that people engaged in these field are doing 'stupid jobs'. It's insulting to to large numbers of people who work diligently and develop significant skills in those domains whose product you have chosen to declare worthless.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#139

Post by cadlin »

simonsarris wrote: post #70
cmahler7 wrote: post #35

We're at the point where the United State can either become utopia or dystopia. Automation can either allow everyone to do whatever they want with almost unlimited leisure, or continue as it has destroying the middle class and consolidating wealth for the elite. I used to be hardcore capitalism but if something isn't done to spread the wealth we are going to have our own French revolution with the plebes rising up ag…

Minor point but the French Revolution was the bourgeoisie (middle class, lawyers, landowners, tradesmen, local officials, "tax payers" of the increasingly onerous taxes at the time) rising up against the nobility & clergy, not quite the plebes.

Minor point on your minor point, the French Revolution may have begun that way with the calling of the Estate General, but actions by the "passive citizens" (lower classes) spurred the overthrow of the monarchy, Louis's subsequent execution, and universal male suffrage.

They didn't direct things from the top, but the mob's opinion was accounted for.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#140

Post by ChrisLTD »

jnicholasp wrote: post #78
ChrisLTD wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a load of crap on so many levels? To take one example, the media and politicians have put a huge spotlight on the plight of coal and manufacturing job losses, while only recently did we learn that in fact we're losing even more retail jobs. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/the-sil... Want to guess at the racial and gender makeup of those manufacturing jobs vs. retail?

I'm not making an argument here, since I don't know the answer to my question, but is it possible that a higher proportion of coal and manufacturing jobs were traditionally living wage, support-a-family type jobs, as compared to retail jobs? And if so, wouldn't it be reasonable to focus attention on the losses in the two categories somewhat differently?

That's an interesting point, but it leads me to a different conclusion. Given the higher numbers of people employed in retail, shouldn't we focus more attention on the fact that those jobs can't support a family?
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