Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair • Hacker News Board

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#41

Post by dkhenry » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

cpayne624 wrote: post #24

pjmorris wrote: post #9

I think you could strike 'Young' and 'White' from the title, and it'd still be accurate.

I think they specify 'White' based on this passage: "While blacks and Hispanics without college degrees are also falling behind economically and socially, middle-age mortality has worsened for whites in particular over the past 20 years—a fact some attribute partly to social context. “For whites, their reference group is previous generations of whites,” said Shannon Monnat, a Pennsylvania State University professor w…

Its previous generations non college educated whites who are previously lived in rural areas which better job prospects then today. The fact that the mortality gab is closing is nothing to do with race and more to do with economics. Showing that race isn't the factor, but the reporting instead focuses on race like this is some kind of white person problem. All we are seeing is the economic collapse that hit inner cities and led to drug and mortality problems reach out to the rural areas.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#42

Post by pm90 » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #27

pjmorris wrote: post #9

I think you could strike 'Young' and 'White' from the title, and it'd still be accurate.

An interesting thing I noticed after moving to America, is that race is such a big deal here that many issues have to be labeled by race, even if they apply universally. Canadian medias on the other hand, seem to be much less interested in playing the race card.

Canada doesn't (to my knowledge) have a history of slavery, de jure (Confederacy) and then de facto (Jim Crow) followed by segregation. That may be the reason there is little interest on "playing the race card".

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#43

Post by ChrisLTD » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

temp246810 wrote: post #12

The sad thing that I've observed is that any mention that this gets in the media or any earnest attempt to address this gets met with: "Oh now that it's white people dealing with drugs, it's a crisis. America is so racist". That's a load of crap on so many levels. I hope we figure out our next chapter here as a society.

Why is it a load of crap on so many levels?

To take one example, the media and politicians have put a huge spotlight on the plight of coal and manufacturing job losses, while only recently did we learn that in fact we're losing even more retail jobs. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/the-sil...

Want to guess at the racial and gender makeup of those manufacturing jobs vs. retail?

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#44

Post by vajrabum » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #18

“America is not a great place for people with only a high school degree, and I don’t think that’s going to get better anytime soon,” said Angus Deaton, a Nobel Prize-winning Princeton University economist. Coming from a Princeton egghead that's not a surprising point of view. It seems very typical for those with education to look down upon the less-educated. The truth is, US high schools miserably fail the non-colleg…

You're talking about possibility. The economist is talking about what's actually happening. Two different things. You have a point they're not unrelated. You can indeed help individuals by pointing them in the right direction, but that's unlikely to scale given limited opportunities. Most people are not suited to be entrepreneurs, in this culture at least, and there are a limited number of trade jobs.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#45

Post by posguy » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

stinkytaco wrote: post #30

posguy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For plumbers, electricians and a few other trades you can become a journeyman apprentice in the US, and after a few years you can earn high 5 digits to low 6 digits with healthcare usually. That being said, its a mature industry and not highly regarded in the US as it is a "blue collar" job. Stigmatizing & devaluing an honest days work is ridiculous to me, but that is what our society has done to these jobs.

You also likely can't work into your 60s doing work like this. Some people move into management, assessment, inspection, etc, but not everyone can do that. There's more going on here than stigmatization (which I rarely see in real life), these jobs have a different set of concerns that we aren't good at dealing with socially.

I've definitely seen people work to retirement or occasionally injury in both industries, in the latter case long term disability picks up the tab using money paid in during the first 30 or 40 years of working.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#46

Post by rfc » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #18

“America is not a great place for people with only a high school degree, and I don’t think that’s going to get better anytime soon,” said Angus Deaton, a Nobel Prize-winning Princeton University economist. Coming from a Princeton egghead that's not a surprising point of view. It seems very typical for those with education to look down upon the less-educated. The truth is, US high schools miserably fail the non-colleg…

This. 1,000x. Some of the most successful folks I know went into trade, became "masters of their domains", and then bridge their skills with business to create their own businesses.

As an example: A friend from back home got into boring right out of high school. 20 years later, he runs one of the most successful directional boring companies in the region and is a multi-multi millionaire. He was told in high school that if he didn't go to college that he would fail.

I don't find this to be a unique story from my perspective but I do have some bias.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#47

Post by heavyheavy » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

temp246810 wrote: post #12

The sad thing that I've observed is that any mention that this gets in the media or any earnest attempt to address this gets met with: "Oh now that it's white people dealing with drugs, it's a crisis. America is so racist". That's a load of crap on so many levels. I hope we figure out our next chapter here as a society.

In my perspective, it IS racist that American cares so much about rehabilitation and empathy for the white drug problem while the black drug issue was dealt with with violence and tearing apart famalies. Is it wrong to want white drug users to go to jail just like black ones were?

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#48

Post by rdiddly » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

cpayne624 wrote: post #24

pjmorris wrote: post #9

I think you could strike 'Young' and 'White' from the title, and it'd still be accurate.

I think they specify 'White' based on this passage: "While blacks and Hispanics without college degrees are also falling behind economically and socially, middle-age mortality has worsened for whites in particular over the past 20 years—a fact some attribute partly to social context. “For whites, their reference group is previous generations of whites,” said Shannon Monnat, a Pennsylvania State University professor w…

Essentially what that's saying is, white people now have black-people problems.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#49

Post by throwanem » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #21

A four year degree is no longer an advantage but rather a base which allows you to have even a hope of competing. Not having a degree is of course a disadvantage. As automation and outsourcing continues, the issue will only worsen. On top of that we are constantly bombarded with images of the life we should be living via advertising and television. Not meeting these media driven standards leads to further depression…

Joy and happiness are nice things to have. Making rent every month is nicer.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#50

Post by posguy » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #40

stinkytaco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also likely can't work into your 60s doing work like this. Some people move into management, assessment, inspection, etc, but not everyone can do that. There's more going on here than stigmatization (which I rarely see in real life), these jobs have a different set of concerns that we aren't good at dealing with socially.

Barring accidents, injury, or bad luck (e.g. a car crash or something), you can absolutely save enough to retire as a plumber before your body starts to break down. Especially if you assume SS will still be around for a new plumber's retirement, which may or may not be the case. Even without, it's doable. I know two plumbers socially and both are in their late 40's. One owns a plumbing business so mainly does office/…

This ^^, you can do well as a plumber and retire after 2 or 3 decades of working if you play your cards right, leaving you with a fairly functional body and freedom from working 1 to 2 decades ahead of most people in the US.