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A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

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Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#531

Post by FabHK »

jessaustin wrote: post #401
dvcc wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, differentiating airlines is hard. To me, a for the most part non-traveler, they all offer pretty much the same product, quality-wise. Unless I was to up my ticket to some other class, every coach ticket is pretty much the same. So what am I supposed to differentiate on other than price?

Well, differentiating airlines is hard. In future one might consider, "how likely are they to violently drag me off a plane?"

It is really rather easy to avoid it, just follow lawful orders by the flight crew.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#532

Post by FabHK »

syshum wrote: post #463
MattSteelblade wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines are legally allowed to overbook. It's an established practice.

Just because it is legally allowed or an established practice does not make it right Lots of things were legally allowed established practices until they were not; people realized they were unethical and immoral, hopefully people will begin to realize this practice is also unethical and work to abolish legal overselling

Yes, lots of things that are legal or established practice are not right.

But overbooking is almost certainly right. Look, fact is that some pax won't show up for their reservation. Without overbooking, planes would fly emptier, wasting money and damaging the environment.

The airlines have fairly good predictions in most cases, and people have different preferences, so that almost always in the small number of cases where there is not enough space you can get people to get bumped voluntarily. It's really a win-win.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#533

Post by FabHK »

doktrin wrote: post #295
67726e wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you do when someone refuses to leave? I'm on the doctor's side, United should not overbook a plane and bump a customer to get their own people on board, but when someone refuses to leave what other options do you have? Taze him and drag him off? You'll have to use force to remove someone.

Like the GP said : this was a logistical problem. They needed to get 4 employees from point A to point B 300 miles away. There are several ways of tackling this challenge : 1. continue escalating their shitty voucher bribes : sooner or later someone's gonna bite 2. arrange alternate air transport for the crew : they're already in an airport, and 2 of their competitors (American, Southwest) have multiple direct flight…

United might not have gotten their crew there in time to fly the next day given legal rest requirements, in which case a whole planeload of people (and possibly more, due to knock-on effects) might have been denied a flight.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#534

Post by FabHK »

nunez wrote: post #486
antoniuschan99 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read. Passengers offered $1500 to leave but the employees scoffed at that. Not sure how true though.

I think the max that an airline can compensate people for an oversold flight is $1000 plus lodging.

USD 1350.

DOT, Air passenger "Bill of Rights"

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbo...

> If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#535

Post by FabHK »

manacit wrote: post #119
MattSteelblade wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, you're correct. Deny Boarding can be avoided by checking in early. These people had boarded and the plane was full before the mistake was realized. EDIT: Still unsure as to the legality of this. IDB is well established, but the fact that everyone has boarded is a different matter. Reading the contract of carriage did not bring any more light to this point. And let's be clear, denying someone an…

I believe your understanding is incorrect - someone can be denied boarding regardless of when they have checked into the flight. If there are 100 seats, they may sell 105 tickets and permit 105 people to check in - if they cannot find 5 volunteers they will have to IDB 5 passengers. While the rules aren't printed very well (I just scanned United's Contract of Carriage, and the Federal Code), I believe it counts as an…

The point is that if you're late at the gate (after the 30 minute cut-off, say), then they are under no obligation to let you on the plane, and do not have to compensate you under IDB rules.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#536

Post by FabHK »

mcv wrote: post #314
MattSteelblade wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, you're correct. Deny Boarding can be avoided by checking in early. These people had boarded and the plane was full before the mistake was realized. EDIT: Still unsure as to the legality of this. IDB is well established, but the fact that everyone has boarded is a different matter. Reading the contract of carriage did not bring any more light to this point. And let's be clear, denying someone an…

If the airline makes a mistake and realizes that mistake too late, they should take the hit themselves, not punish an innocent passenger for their own mistake. Airlines should make a better effort to avoid overbooking. If they can get away with this kind of despicable behaviour, they'll never improve.

> they should take the hit themselves, not punish an innocent passenger for their own mistake.

If they don't get their crew to the other airport, the next day a full plane load of people (or more, due to knock-on effects) might have been denied a flight.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#537

Post by FabHK »

rdtsc wrote: post #122
joelrunyon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally - is this considered assault?

It would have to go before a judge. It could be a case of excessive force. Was there something else they could have done rather than end up with him getting knocked out and a bloody nose. As someone else mentioned it would be brought against the policeman in this case (or authority they work for). United unfortunately is probably legally in the right here. However this is a major fuck up and it will take them a while…

Paradoxically, I'd argue that many knowledgeable people/frequent flyers will understand and excuse United's behaviour, but they haven't flown United for years, because they're so crap.

While clueless idiots are now making a huge shitstorm on social media, and then fly United next week because it's $3.50 cheaper.

So, not sure that will have any impact on United's actual numbers.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#538

Post by FabHK »

vijayr wrote: post #413
tedmiston wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their technical definition of boarding may include everything up to until taxing for takeoff. They definitely are able to remove people between boarding and takeoff, whether through IDB or another clause.

We are sitting here debating the "technical" definition of a simple thing such as boarding a plane :( In modern society (business especially), anything and everything seems to be centered around legality rather than common sense and being nice to fellow humans

The nice and altruistic thing would have been to get off the damn plane when the flight crew and airline managers ask you to do. Supererogatory niceness would have been for someone else to take the 800 USD and hotel room and volunteer.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#539

Post by dagw »

chrisbennet wrote: post #510
apparissus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non-zero percentage of passengers usually fail to show up for any given flight. It is more profitable for the airline to sell (e.g.) 110% of the seats available and get near 100% utilization out of the flight, while occasionally having to pay for a hotel room and a cheap voucher, as opposed to not overbooking. When a business is acting in an abhorent, immoral, or unethical manner profit and greed are nearly always…

How does this work? I mean, do the customers who fail to show, still pay for their flight?

do the customers who fail to show, still pay for their flight?

Depends on the ticket. For lower price tickets, generally speaking you don't get anything if you miss your flight. For Business and First class tickets you can generally re-book or get the ticket refunded if you miss your flight. There are also some insurance policies you can get which will refund at least most of your ticket if you miss your flight due to medical or family emergencies.

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